From lojban-beginners+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDt4OveBBoEUx3x9Q@googlegroups.com Fri Apr 30 08:00:21 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O7rhH-0003IU-HQ; Fri, 30 Apr 2010 08:00:21 -0700 Received: by wwb13 with SMTP id 13sf192262wwb.16 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2010 08:00:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+yNneJK9dAc4tIn38Dhm+avg+tRXlSw8uvgvlI1f+gw=; b=evREXjt1VRaUpcmxE9NqmIpUUHJf0fesyz806b0/PwSv7LPvgFHUGog7AJVcZPnnIo hCel9mMRvc/M3Gvu3akTY43REey4I++l1Pdp45AHp+HBK/MiC7pnaMnGK691ZJgsu4eY ZuSHGxkWMkEfvxkd7AqT6s/8lDCVcjqOS/eys= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=HhfTgGmvXckpeT3mEO7xzfELqEeSuR5gNd1PCFjIsDkqC/zg0me62buQEAqSEzn8c9 qgYhl2kJaiDe6mujxNQ0zuW454V9L/lfC6Ve40jBHlq8qWvAuLnmuwa3eVz2bw9mPByy RMUvg2h0HCa9AB0ETqG2RJJuu58S+AtVDEOzY= Received: by 10.223.65.7 with SMTP id g7mr2947611fai.8.1272639597665; Fri, 30 Apr 2010 07:59:57 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.35.68 with SMTP id o4ls22051442bkd.1.p; Fri, 30 Apr 2010 07:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.49.76 with SMTP id u12mr528176bkf.15.1272639594634; Fri, 30 Apr 2010 07:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.49.76 with SMTP id u12mr528175bkf.15.1272639594610; Fri, 30 Apr 2010 07:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.157]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 11si276795bwz.2.2010.04.30.07.59.53; Fri, 30 Apr 2010 07:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 72.14.220.157 as permitted sender) client-ip=72.14.220.157; Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e21so4082540fga.2 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2010 07:59:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.87.15.13 with SMTP id s13mr4171111fgi.48.1272639592774; Fri, 30 Apr 2010 07:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.76.2 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Apr 2010 07:59:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4BD94677.6060909@lojban.org> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:59:52 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Conditionals--da'i etc. From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 72.14.220.157 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Ian Johnson wrot= e: > So nibli is not defined using=A0the classical implication, then? "nibli" says that x2 logically follows from x1. Material implication is something different. >Because in > the classical implication "pigs can fly implies that the sky is green" is > (assuming that we haven't=A0done=A0something really bizarre to the pigs)= =A0true. Right "ganai lo xarju cu vofli gi lo tsani cu crino" is true, given that "lo xarju cu vofli" is false. (This "implies" does not mean "logically entails".) It doesn't mean that you can infer "the sky is green" just from "pigs can fly". The valid inference you can make is the following: (True) premise: ganai lo xarju cu vofli gi lo tsani cu crino (False) premise: lo xarju cu vofli Conclusion: lo tsani cu crino That's a valid inference. But since one of the premises is false, we can't say that the conclusion is true. The valid inference is thus: lo du'u ge ganai lo xarju cu vofli gi lo tsani cu crino gi lo xarju cu vofli cu nibli lo du'u lo tsani cu crino But you need both premises in order to infer the conclusion. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.