From 3Bd21SwAAEOMQTOGFS-GJLNSSJWXLTTLQJLWTZUX.HTR@groups.bounces.google.com Fri Apr 02 05:03:38 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f164.google.com ([209.85.222.164]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3Bd21SwAAEOMQTOGFS-GJLNSSJWXLTTLQJLWTZUX.HTR@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nxfb5-0005ZY-53 for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 05:03:38 -0700 Received: by pzk36 with SMTP id 36sf571673pzk.24 for ; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 05:03:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oa8X6AsqnZuuZw+cfqZgTIelDKBw6vt5weDeNKg1t0E=; b=wlh1YuUEFPRcJtPHMwavIvCI+TXzWSYlbnvgKI87vdR6nil00J7WGlmvPFWcgHDBn/ XRQ4WRRKhWV9pkW02jg1iq7Q73onKAU9zfPk35DOfKF5oj67WnDP5ry5bdc++YFCrnNh D0ZKCfhbnKWbltGzQrCkB5tOqXEfwjsv+1nAQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=Rk67Mi/QPSH7KYBcTG+U3Vz/rSRqogT3x94y71gosLGIKJcRpmPqVcOWbTv528gWdO WvGKRmLF4a5SXluk8Ohkkhepp8BEDjPoJvg+bFfGGZrl1zFi2bsp0kGxGemw6t6vp9kU 1wurCb2ryDqCc/SoJknBQ4TR2r8N68U9XyLco= Received: by 10.115.38.1 with SMTP id q1mr152643waj.13.1270209797362; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 05:03:17 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.114.18.37 with SMTP id 37ls433508war.2.p; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 05:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.187.12 with SMTP id k12mr465606waf.28.1270209795316; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 05:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.187.12 with SMTP id k12mr465603waf.28.1270209795282; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 05:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pw0-f45.google.com (mail-pw0-f45.google.com [209.85.160.45]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si1955289pzk.8.2010.04.02.05.03.14; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 05:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.45 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.45; Received: by pwi6 with SMTP id 6so1707371pwi.18 for ; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 05:03:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.154.21 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Apr 2010 05:03:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1f1080831003101520r1e87f21cuacb4cd23fa9a2d4c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561003291222m3aee5315xd909234ae2b92f38@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a61003291306k4b7ef0e6u1e0ec0f9f7024415@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561003291502n2e214555y3a726fed512f0d1d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 08:03:14 -0400 Received: by 10.142.248.30 with SMTP id v30mr764813wfh.52.1270209794110; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 05:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Duration questions From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/t/8a645652df58adca X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/msg/dd75de513eec166a Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/4/1 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: >>> =A0In the usual pattern, >>> " broda" can always be expressed as "broda ko'a" by >>> choosing a suitable "ko'a". The tag always has the same effect on >>> broda, and ko'a only adds more information. >> >> =A0It still does. =A0And with exactly the same "ko'a" as is currently >> defined for all PU/ZA/VI, etc. =A0 namely (are you ready?....) "ti". =A0= So >> how can "ze'u ti" mean "for a long time of this?" and still mean "for >> a long time"? =A0Because how big/long a space/duration that "ti" >> occupies is entirely dependent on context. > > Are you saying that if you say "mi ze'u limna", that means "mi limna > ze'u ti", and "ti" refers to a length of time just a little bit longer > than whatever length of time you were swimming for (whether that was a > short or a long time)? Clerly not, so you must be saying that "ti" has > to be a long "ti" when used with "ze'u ti", and probably not too long > for "ze'i ti". But this "ti", unlike the "here and now" used as > reference point for PU and FAhA, seems like a completely ad hoc > construction, built specifically for the purpose of making "ZEhA > broda" equivalent to "broda ZEhA ti", with no natural independent > existence. Yup, that's exactly what I'm saying. All of those things. I'm sorry if it makes you uncomfortable, but I am now confident you understand precisely my position. --gejyspa --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.