From lojban-beginners+bncCJKZgdeYARCth97fBBoELBidsg@googlegroups.com Sat May 22 00:11:55 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OFisA-0003Ll-Bo; Sat, 22 May 2010 00:11:55 -0700 Received: by pva4 with SMTP id 4sf446995pva.16 for ; Sat, 22 May 2010 00:11:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received :received:date:x-ip:user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject :from:to:x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=OGukWBXy2Zv2FAcW9VjK97aq/liahLq7KvPX+HvPoR8=; b=2VoiHvKmNkH85SR0UihsvgxK1ryd/962Osu/ajWuR6Vsv8YaKzLXVdoEIN0A4nv4EM QTumTkve/DTWsNNLtWF8qxZiOSMLeJFWuQVsWDitsrCoii8g3AxEW5LsmNBVyx/hC9Vu 4tDbQMZqCU/5jihOrUZ/phYGFjAL+atozQiaY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:x-ip:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=BR2bcSiu6m+56ZOAJcI15wu8TMnp8JHfCXIjiBcz0C8eNLFHgpmzI1skBnE9CkIiEE GEWXbad6VKJvGPvCFmimQ+pApArqKAT7lDIGnjJ0Pk5d20zq0gg5N0o3Amb2UM8pslR2 5wnWWla2nIEl9kJIqg/IYvomGhEoTkNmYK3WE= Received: by 10.115.81.27 with SMTP id i27mr415179wal.2.1274512301443; Sat, 22 May 2010 00:11:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.255.17 with SMTP id c17ls68676rvi.2.p; Sat, 22 May 2010 00:11:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.124.13 with SMTP id b13mr897750rvn.8.1274512300693; Sat, 22 May 2010 00:11:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.176.20 with SMTP id y20mr2741626ybe.2.1274214771154; Tue, 18 May 2010 13:32:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.176.20 with SMTP id y20mr2741625ybe.2.1274214771126; Tue, 18 May 2010 13:32:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f151.google.com (mail-yw0-f151.google.com [209.85.211.151]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id k42si9183421ybb.0.2010.05.18.13.32.50; Tue, 18 May 2010 13:32:50 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.211.151 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of googlegroups_og@solipsys.co.uk) client-ip=209.85.211.151; Received: by ywh15 with SMTP id 15so2951334ywh.7 for ; Tue, 18 May 2010 13:32:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.152.38 with SMTP id e38mr309160ano.66.1274214770401; Tue, 18 May 2010 13:32:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by f13g2000vbm.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 May 2010 13:32:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:32:50 -0700 (PDT) X-IP: 79.76.160.175 User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US) AppleWebKit/532.5 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/4.1.249.1064 Safari/532.5,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: <8bc60ff1-ec28-4659-bb74-75859732d7b0@f13g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Some ideas that I hope will be interesting, and may help lojban ... From: riderofgiraffes To: Lojban Beginners X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.211.151 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of googlegroups_og@solipsys.co.uk) smtp.mail=googlegroups_og@solipsys.co.uk X-Original-Sender: googlegroups_og@solipsys.co.uk Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Greetings. Firstly, I've been interested in, and a member of various lists for, lojban since the late 80s. It's been interesting seeing how the number of people interested in the language has grown, slowly but surely, and the number of people able to communicate effectively has also grown. I have a few ideas that I think would be of benefit to the lojban community, and I'd love to communicate them. The problem is that I am, like so many others, quite simply over-committed with other obligations. I don't have the time to write up my suggestions, and I certainly don't have time to engage in the resulting discussion with people to try to get my ideas adopted. I absolutely don't have time to chase them myself, much as I'd like. So here are some ideas, and I'd be grateful for some feedback. If anyone thinks they have some merit then I'd be happy to expand informally on them to communicate them clearly. If you all think they have no merit then I'll quietly drop them. * I think there should be an extremely simplified semi-formal grammar made available that beginners can start with. They can learn the entirety of this simplified grammar and use it to generate grammatically correct sentences without huge distractions. An obvious subset is just [sumti]* tanru [sumti]*, but it's hard to say anything "real" in lojban without using BAI or modals (this may be wrong - this idea is old, and I'm working from memory) * The lojban community desperately needs written works that are interesting, but which beginners can read. These need to be limited in grammar (as per above) and vocabulary, but have content enough to be worth reading in their own right. A good source of material to translate would be "English as a Foreign Language" works. These are written for doctors, lawyers and high- powered academics, but use simple language, suitable for learners. Perhaps some might be suitable for translation into, or re-writing in, lojban. * Combining the above, we could have a web site that allows uses to fill the blanks in a recursive descent representation of the grammar, guaranteeing that the result is grammatical, and using on-line lookup to help find the words. This is harder to describe than the other ideas, but the idea in my head is pretty fully formed. I think this would allow relative beginners to produce simple texts to communicate, and over time, they will internalise the grammar and start being able to generate text without the web aid. I originally sent this to Robin as a part of the process of getting off the mailing lists, but he is too busy to pursue anything of this nature, and so I have edited it lightly and am placing it here. I have recently managed to crawl back from the brink of declaring email bankruptcy and have no time to pursue these ideas, but I think they are too good to let die without seeing the light of day. So here they are. I can occasionally respond to short emails if you want clarification, I may occasionally be able to join in discussions, but for now, I must suspend my already meagre lojban participation. I hope this contribution is of non-negative value. mi'e kolin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.