From lojban-beginners+bncCOzcnrWBFBC-mO7fBBoEO14How@googlegroups.com Tue May 25 01:37:36 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OGpdg-0001p9-VN; Tue, 25 May 2010 01:37:36 -0700 Received: by vws8 with SMTP id 8sf3159704vws.16 for ; Tue, 25 May 2010 01:37:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:sender :received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=xeo9hA5FCSHcrCF4p2hmGNYu3pnf6GtaJfByD6BIYis=; b=Mn7IdeqwY2o4rI2gv4XTkJ6TQDSGIbTdAZrpZFeuyEcmMKXYqWn7zPsJdic82JuU/r 1MXev1wNiFB0dXZJvoOQwt/IwPGd1sQ+ob4CG2Ogbsanvl6OFHSJ4ANKr2V0n4a0J2nt oP32XXizFuylZN90aj4TBa7ofa5vUB4eyNQzk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=q+9bJq9yhCbr+ysQscRBLW2SQ4kfTa5eWDjZHqE0Ax9gfNLhOCjyMrns30hnO3AHLg /hkwrfh4SgwhkFiaHHMXtlVA2HlFoiJk9ZkhiiVs2T5ngrQ2Bg3oaEUNtknV6xNhjufZ DkyAjIZONKVMXf/naSryaZySdChPRHuYIkGME= Received: by 10.220.122.76 with SMTP id k12mr358657vcr.22.1274776638581; Tue, 25 May 2010 01:37:18 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.79.81 with SMTP id o17ls1287649vck.4.p; Tue, 25 May 2010 01:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.161.8 with SMTP id p8mr1534978vcx.5.1274776637732; Tue, 25 May 2010 01:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.161.8 with SMTP id p8mr1534977vcx.5.1274776637700; Tue, 25 May 2010 01:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f193.google.com (mail-qy0-f193.google.com [209.85.221.193]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id a29si3527280vcp.4.2010.05.25.01.37.16; Tue, 25 May 2010 01:37:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pascal.akihiko@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.193 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.193; Received: by mail-qy0-f193.google.com with SMTP id 31so7370942qyk.25 for ; Tue, 25 May 2010 01:37:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.220.202 with SMTP id hz10mr1363226qcb.23.1274776636490; Tue, 25 May 2010 01:37:16 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.141.8 with HTTP; Tue, 25 May 2010 01:37:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 09:37:16 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] tcati From: tijlan To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pascal.akihiko@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.193 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=pascal.akihiko@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: pascal.akihiko@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163630e9b196052a04876710c3 --00163630e9b196052a04876710c3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 24 May 2010 22:45, Ian Johnson wrote: > Why doesn't tcati have a species place? I intuitively went to say: > mi nelci loi tcati be la'o ly. aspalathus linearis ly. > by which I meant "I like tea of the species *aspalathus linearis*." which > is to say "I like rooibos tea.", thinking that tcati was defined as: > "x1 is a quantity of tea brewed from leaves of species x2." > or (in this case I would've been incorrect regardless, but it would make > more sense this way): > "x1 is a quantity of tea brewed from leaves x2 of species x3." > > Why isn't it defined in a way anything like this? Is there an "of species" > sumti tcita? Preferably a bit more restricted than {le'a}? > "Rooibos" can be both a leaf and a category, just like "human" can be both an animal and a category. If a leaf goes by the name of "rooibos", then its species is naturally "aspalathus linearis". mi nelci loi tcati be la'o ly. aspalathus linearis ly. This means that I like tea brewed from leaves named aspalathus linearis, at the same time connoting that the leaves are of species "aspalathus linearis". Note that this particular "la'o ly. aspalathus linearis ly." are individual leaves, not a set like a species would be. Without a context, we wouldn't be able to tell, unless it's marked with "lu'a" (individual) or "lu'i" (set). With "loi tcati", you are implying that the bridi would not be true if the tea were not a mass, meaning that the event of you liking rooibos tea is caused by the tea being a mass. So, if I invite you to my house, I would think that I have to offer you multiple cups of rooibos tea *at once* because it's uncertain that you would be pleased with an individual cup or successive individual cups. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --00163630e9b196052a04876710c3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 24 May 2010 22:45, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
Why doesn't tcati have a species place? I intuitively went to say:
m= i nelci loi tcati be la'o ly. aspalathus linearis ly.
by which I mea= nt "I like tea of the species aspalathus linearis." which = is to say "I like rooibos tea.", thinking that tcati was defined = as:
"x1 is a quantity of tea brewed from leaves of species x2."
or= (in this case I would've been incorrect regardless, but it would make = more sense this way):
"x1 is a quantity of tea brewed from leaves x= 2 of species x3."

Why isn't it defined in a way anything like this? Is there an "= ;of species" sumti tcita? Preferably a bit more restricted than {le= 9;a}?

"Rooibos" can be both a leaf and a= category, just like "human" can be both an animal and a category= . If a leaf goes by the name of "rooibos", then its species is na= turally "aspalathus linearis".
=A0mi nelci loi tcati be la'o ly. aspalathus linearis ly.
This means= that I like tea brewed from leaves named aspalathus linearis, at the same = time connoting that the leaves are of species "aspalathus linearis&quo= t;.

Note that this particular "la'o ly. aspalathus linearis ly.&qu= ot; are individual leaves, not a set like a species would be. Without a con= text, we wouldn't be able to tell, unless it's marked with "lu= 'a" (individual) or "lu'i" (set).

With "loi tcati", you are implying that the bridi would not b= e true if the tea were not a mass, meaning that the event of you liking roo= ibos tea is caused by the tea being a mass. So, if I invite you to my house= , I would think that I have to offer you multiple cups of rooibos tea *at o= nce* because it's uncertain that you would be pleased with an individua= l cup or successive individual cups.
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