From lojban-beginners+bncCOzcnrWBFBDFrIzfBBoEItpWfQ@googlegroups.com Thu May 06 12:19:59 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OA6bm-0001Zj-KZ; Thu, 06 May 2010 12:19:58 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf162008gyd.16 for ; Thu, 06 May 2010 12:19:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received :sender:received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from :to:x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Vps08n58BPQ8Fe0xtsn9JEBhoZ8B9Obf1rZ2eUCQOS8=; b=5XggYnFu7v06zuJtipWaNB71ALdhrCzxSZZ8nNVPK3FDIAiCtsqG/7SLO0wHU0u5m8 P5HwXwF8vTkzg/O4OwoRc6n8glZxunbZK5nITTVpbHuA+j8XZR89OResUxEdSjqqb1eZ FJd8GgoV9aro81wZMnmO2aAmfMNCGwZRGKgls= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=Klh6aiKAUwY7f9tWrrOVKQCnPvfbdvaAVdAioRB8CdqM15zDCHPPTpy6gIg181wjUE a475X3UeR3W66DGPpnwly6LtKPA6Ll7JhBxIDijW6+3iduRNP/lZiwMI44qWJEi/md6E g8fLC5eSFwm4F81FKbgMZ7dmemj1sEpFQKS48= Received: by 10.150.119.34 with SMTP id r34mr41525ybc.6.1273173573040; Thu, 06 May 2010 12:19:33 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.248.9 with SMTP id v9ls5718849ybh.5.p; Thu, 06 May 2010 12:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.183.7 with SMTP id g7mr1098473ybf.17.1273173572431; Thu, 06 May 2010 12:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.163.10 with SMTP id y10mr911230vcx.27.1273061714328; Wed, 05 May 2010 05:15:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.163.10 with SMTP id y10mr911229vcx.27.1273061714310; Wed, 05 May 2010 05:15:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f177.google.com (mail-qy0-f177.google.com [209.85.221.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l27si5965153vcr.2.2010.05.05.05.15.13; Wed, 05 May 2010 05:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pascal.akihiko@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.177; Received: by qyk7 with SMTP id 7so6110594qyk.7 for ; Wed, 05 May 2010 05:15:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.63.196 with SMTP id c4mr8864829qai.78.1273061711043; Wed, 05 May 2010 05:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.1.222 with HTTP; Wed, 5 May 2010 05:15:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <2035EAA2-54C5-4259-BC7C-497A1CA2A4F5@mac.com> Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 13:15:10 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Proposed change to smart.fm items From: tijlan To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pascal.akihiko@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=pascal.akihiko@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: pascal.akihiko@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64bde32105e3d0485d7c7c7 --0016e64bde32105e3d0485d7c7c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 "you can't really want a thing, you want to have a thing, to eat a thing, etc."... Isn't that the same for {nelci}? If I like apples, I like to be stimulated by apples' flavour, fracturability etc., or I like the way apples taste and mouth-feel, etc.; I don't simply like 'apples'. I am of the opinion that every perceived individual thing is ultimately an event. An apple is an event of some things 'appling' (to borrow Alan Watts' expression), which includes being capable of stimulating a mouth in certain ways with certain qualities. I happen to think that {lo plise} is an implicit event of {lo nu da plise}, and that {mi nelci lo plise} is essentially {mi nelci lo nu da plise} or more specifically {mi nelci lo nu da plise fi'o citka mi}. In this respect, it does'nt seem to me important to decide on whether the x2 of {nelci} should be a non-NU sumti or a NU sumti. The same for {djica}: {mi djica lo nu mi citka lo plise} or {mi djica lo nu da plise fi'o citka mi} can, in my opinion, implicitly be {mi djica lo plise}, {lo plise} being an implicit extraction, which can of course be made explicit with {tu'a}. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0016e64bde32105e3d0485d7c7c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"you can't really want a thing, yo= u want to have a thing, to eat a thing, etc."... Isn't that the same for {nelci}? If I like apples, I lik= e to be stimulated by apples' flavour, fracturability etc., or I like t= he way apples taste and mouth-feel, etc.; I don't simply like 'appl= es'.

I am of the opinion that every perceived individual thing is ultimately= an event. An apple is an event of some things 'appling' (to borrow= Alan Watts' expression), which includes being capable of stimulating a= mouth in certain ways with certain qualities. I happen to think that {lo p= lise} is an implicit event of {lo nu da plise}, and that {mi nelci lo plise= } is essentially {mi nelci lo nu da plise} or more specifically {mi nelci l= o nu da plise fi'o citka mi}. In this respect, it does'nt seem to m= e important to decide on whether the x2 of {nelci} should be a non-NU sumti= or a NU sumti. The same for {djica}: {mi djica lo nu mi citka lo plise} or= {mi djica lo nu da plise fi'o citka mi} can, in my opinion, implicitly= be {mi djica lo plise}, {lo plise} being an implicit extraction, which can= of course be made explicit with {tu'a}.
<= div style=3D"display: none ! important; visibility: hidden ! important; pos= ition: absolute ! important; height: auto ! important; width: auto; z-index= : 1410065406 ! important; border: 1px solid rgb(0, 67, 179) ! important; -m= oz-border-radius: 3px 3px 3px 3px ! important; vertical-align: middle ! imp= ortant; padding: 1px ! important; margin: 0px ! important; color: rgb(0, 0,= 0) ! important; background-color: rgb(168, 236, 255) ! important; font-fam= ily: Arial ! important; font-size: 12px ! important; line-height: normal ! = important; font-weight: normal ! important; left: 115px ! important; top: 2= 25px ! important;" id=3D"gmBFhv">

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