From lojban-beginners+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDIxJHfBBoE-tavng@googlegroups.com Fri May 07 11:56:23 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OASif-0007gd-T9; Fri, 07 May 2010 11:56:23 -0700 Received: by pvg6 with SMTP id 6sf343673pvg.16 for ; Fri, 07 May 2010 11:56:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=2KwWwKntus7R0R0hEULo3kP7pYGwTFMAZqEMzVPz7e0=; b=4qNAxj2680VHU1Gb4sMyfgD7HBNjCTpBeuT3nIvzwAEJmHAYPR4UdoGbQsjdMvBui0 aslfZKpCmJfa+jD22tEtbVjS+Is4UzxHKgIdVNBxDW1yM/mDYToIhwdKH+GJGoo8uVUN 50D3JNDIKhAsjo+2x6BxM6me3glNjso8Cp1XA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=4ekGDwLRKzb5DskKWSSMTm6ffGY1jl31Z+D1mVmtcMPTFNvTkiYjRlPjm38IXbvRuM OM4RTv71AXa/CjxfgVY4CSHS2UYxU6KAB17Oixqk/DdF7wh+bi/6kIeNm5olmKN6Izmu CSQEzceIUeXvLth/PB8LvyW/4B9dF8K1YSRRg= Received: by 10.115.101.15 with SMTP id d15mr84697wam.10.1273258568776; Fri, 07 May 2010 11:56:08 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.115.135.31 with SMTP id m31ls12673399wan.1.p; Fri, 07 May 2010 11:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.69.15 with SMTP id r15mr20395waa.37.1273258567678; Fri, 07 May 2010 11:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.69.15 with SMTP id r15mr20394waa.37.1273258567636; Fri, 07 May 2010 11:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f54.google.com (mail-vw0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id r3si1906782waj.7.2010.05.07.11.56.06; Fri, 07 May 2010 11:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.54; Received: by mail-vw0-f54.google.com with SMTP id 17so822037vws.13 for ; Fri, 07 May 2010 11:56:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.185.1 with SMTP id cm1mr309426qcb.57.1273258566145; Fri, 07 May 2010 11:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.82.11 with HTTP; Fri, 7 May 2010 11:56:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <2035EAA2-54C5-4259-BC7C-497A1CA2A4F5@mac.com> <201005062111.16127.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 15:56:06 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Proposed change to smart.fm items From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > I really don't like that translation.=A0 "used by" means {pilno} to me wh= ich > is different from comprehending a thing. =A0If {jimpe} doesn't mean what = the > english "understand" means, then what does? "jimpe" does mean "understand that ...", it just doesn't cover all the meanings of "understand", at least if we take the gi'uste definition seriously. > It seems like the concept of > conprehending a thing would be one of those most basic concepts that > practical communication needs. Right, but you do agree that understanding some thing is not the same as understanding some facts about the thing, right? "Understanding a language" can have two meanings, the type of understanding of utterances in the language that a speaker of the language has (knowing how to use the language), and the type of understanding that a linguist has (knowing many facts about the language and how those facts relate to one another). The second is the one expressed by "jimpe fi lo bangu". This is tied with the "know that" vs. "know how to" distinction. If you understand that nouns are not inflected in Chinese, then "do jimpe da lo jugbau", even if you don't understand Chinese. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.