From lojban-beginners+bncCJ2UzZHuDRD11JHfBBoEt12mCg@googlegroups.com Fri May 07 12:31:16 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OATGQ-00023c-Uj; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:31:16 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf1061254gyd.16 for ; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:31:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=reGI+OaeR6Hnl1t3LGTopoV4W+WEPR+ETynATgIxDHI=; b=VZ4W+hFIp1qaFMG5uiaDLIbTgsT+aGjZlfI5czLZ/EKAWNfc1bsjxQS0X6AeBltYZr oUNToTuVKqSp/+lqRVNI78HCe4gTSkYwkZdaatfVWlwmRbnK3BPowBX9MQsIEfWKeX0Z oQmD7oqgIdthUktMIKEhTABQS/ANQtehCmmyE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=wUpxHXJJ4JMNU78Jt/P9u5GlR3OTiUCVZyW9fOOeA1gHxp3pjO41l9ccrqz8sYC133 hO+aDZLs4HsVpHTO5+loSQBDaFf1Ee97DZPdnFR8LAdy7bO33j8J5MQS4cFygtkbV+cH 807QuJIXUZ9UIt8i6XvhPznKN+tDIwQA0K28o= Received: by 10.101.131.32 with SMTP id i32mr23086ann.77.1273260661927; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:31:01 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.172.18 with SMTP id z18ls7203830ano.2.p; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.200.36 with SMTP id c36mr391615anq.20.1273260661207; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.200.36 with SMTP id c36mr391614anq.20.1273260661179; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f188.google.com (mail-qy0-f188.google.com [209.85.221.188]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 11si219635gxk.9.2010.05.07.12.31.00; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.188 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.188; Received: by mail-qy0-f188.google.com with SMTP id 26so2201172qyk.19 for ; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:31:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.27.233 with SMTP id j41mr273804qac.102.1273260657783; Fri, 07 May 2010 12:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.82.11 with HTTP; Fri, 7 May 2010 12:30:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <2035EAA2-54C5-4259-BC7C-497A1CA2A4F5@mac.com> <201005062111.16127.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 16:30:57 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Proposed change to smart.fm items From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.188 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > I don't agree. When I see a definition like=A0 "x1 understands/comprehend= s > fact/truth x2 (du'u) about subject x3; x1 understands (fi) x3, I take it = to > mean that > {zo'e jimpe zo'e zo'e} means=A0 "x1 understands/comprehends fact/truth x2 > (du'u) about subject x3" > {zo'e jimpe fi zo'e} means " "x1 understands (fi) x3" You can ask lojbab, who wrote the definition. I'm pretty sure he did not intend for "zo'e jimpe zo'e zo'e" to mean anything different to "zo'e jimpe fi zo'e". See: http://jbotcan.org/docs/cll/c7/s7.html for how "zo'e" is supposed to w= ork. > I don't limit this to just {jimpe}: > facki "x1 discovers/finds out x2 (du'u) about subject/object x3; x1 finds > (fi) x3 (object)" > {zo'e facki zo'e zo'e} "x1 discovers/finds out x2 (du'u) about > subject/object x3" > {zo'e facki fi zo'e} "x1 finds (fi) x3 (object)" But "facki fi da" does not mean "tolcri da". > frati "x1 reacts/responds/answers with action x2 to stimulus x3 under > conditions x4; x1 is responsive" > {zo'e frati zo'e zo'e zo'e} "x1 reacts/responds/answers with action x2 to > stimulus x3 under conditions x4" > {zo'e frati} "x1 is responsive" What's the differnce between responding and being responsive? > fulta "x1 (passive) floats on/in fluid (gas/liquid) x2; x1 is buoyant" > {zo'e fulta zo'e} "x1 (passive) floats on/in fluid (gas/liquid) x2" > {zo'e fulta} "x1 is buoyant" What's the difference between floating and being buoyant? Are you thinking of a ca'a/ka'e distinction? It is not related to the presence or absence of an explicit x2. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.