From lojban-beginners+bncCOzcnrWBFBC56JHfBBoEVJmVgA@googlegroups.com Fri May 07 13:12:54 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f168.google.com ([209.85.210.168]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OATuj-0005Ch-6C; Fri, 07 May 2010 13:12:54 -0700 Received: by yxe40 with SMTP id 40sf892503yxe.28 for ; Fri, 07 May 2010 13:12:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:sender :received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=GRn0uvx44MJ9LM9rVLhbqBvZjZ4FhZSSsQDIjqMFGJA=; b=fB9G+YJmUCZ6XcP0SKtQNXccfnUZF6aErOv773mGNN1NjwjzkEy8Gzj9x2+cSZ9+X0 hJJdlDVzFFhIGvsiTRytOw/L4JS/S6p9OsqGSFoI9r0/0peoxzu0Hcld31PgyqhwKZC8 P2bEJ/V7W1HnNGfe0TcI4Ez22UwagUB/o+g8A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=49eH9kl/c7T1r9AqaSv5U5B5OmLpBuL5JOm+D67SR+PPbzoNMrm2N8NJMAxk0KxPSH 1pN7bkxuhRSA7NSw0yyEk/g8PW/QTdKmPJsKkuoHJ3Y1M4fjWOnfN3mtPVbzu0iUvu3z QPC0QB5OWMwii1i9m56tQz/h/ePvgAxuZxoTI= Received: by 10.151.33.1 with SMTP id l1mr215915ybj.17.1273263161150; Fri, 07 May 2010 13:12:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.172.18 with SMTP id z18ls7269209ano.2.p; Fri, 07 May 2010 13:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.22.14 with SMTP id 14mr414334anv.34.1273263160687; Fri, 07 May 2010 13:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.22.14 with SMTP id 14mr414333anv.34.1273263160643; Fri, 07 May 2010 13:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f188.google.com (mail-qy0-f188.google.com [209.85.221.188]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si181338yxe.0.2010.05.07.13.12.39; Fri, 07 May 2010 13:12:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pascal.akihiko@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.188 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.188; Received: by mail-qy0-f188.google.com with SMTP id 26so2256691qyk.19 for ; Fri, 07 May 2010 13:12:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.212.213 with SMTP id gt21mr455015qcb.2.1273263158546; Fri, 07 May 2010 13:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.1.222 with HTTP; Fri, 7 May 2010 13:12:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <2035EAA2-54C5-4259-BC7C-497A1CA2A4F5@mac.com> <201005062111.16127.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 21:12:38 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Proposed change to smart.fm items From: tijlan To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pascal.akihiko@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.188 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=pascal.akihiko@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: pascal.akihiko@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163630ebbf46a155048606ae0d --00163630ebbf46a155048606ae0d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 7 May 2010 20:46, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> > I don't limit this to just {jimpe}: >> > facki "x1 discovers/finds out x2 (du'u) about subject/object x3; x1 >> finds >> > (fi) x3 (object)" >> > {zo'e facki zo'e zo'e} "x1 discovers/finds out x2 (du'u) about >> > subject/object x3" >> > {zo'e facki fi zo'e} "x1 finds (fi) x3 (object)" >> >> But "facki fi da" does not mean "tolcri da". >> > > When the tomb of Tutankamen was discovered, I would call that {ko'a facki > fi ko'e}, regardless of whether {ko'a tolcri ko'e} is true. > Yes. With {ko'a facki fi ko'e} you can mean for example that ko'a discovered/confirmed "lo du'u ko'e zvati ko'i", which is one of the senses of "discover", i.e. "find something for the first time". The other sense is "expose something previously hidden", which is {tolcri}. > >> > frati "x1 reacts/responds/answers with action x2 to stimulus x3 under >> > conditions x4; x1 is responsive" >> > {zo'e frati zo'e zo'e zo'e} "x1 reacts/responds/answers with action x2 >> to >> > stimulus x3 under conditions x4" >> > {zo'e frati} "x1 is responsive" >> >> What's the differnce between responding and being responsive? >> > > Responding is an event. Being responsive is a property. > "Being responsive" is a state, which is one form of event. It's an event of having the property of "responsiveness". being responsive (having the property of responsiveness) =/= responsiveness It's the same for "being buoyant". -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --00163630ebbf46a155048606ae0d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 7 May 2010 20:46, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't limit this to just {jimpe}:
> facki "x1 discovers/finds out x2 (du'u) about subject/object = x3; x1 finds
> (fi) x3 (object)"
> {zo'e facki zo'e zo'e} "x1 discovers/finds out x2 (du= 'u) about
> subject/object x3"
> {zo'e facki fi zo'e} "x1 finds (fi) x3 (object)"

But "facki fi da" does not mean "tolcri da".
<= /blockquote>

When the tomb of Tutankamen was discovered, I wo= uld call that {ko'a facki fi ko'e}, regardless of whether {ko'a= tolcri ko'e} is true.

Yes. With {ko'a facki fi ko'e} yo= u can mean for example that ko'a discovered/confirmed "lo du'u= ko'e zvati ko'i", which is one of the senses of "discove= r", i.e. "find something for the first time". The other sens= e is "expose something previously hidden", which is {tolcri}.

=A0

> frati "x1 reacts/responds/answers with action x2 to stimulus x3 u= nder
> conditions x4; x1 is responsive"
> {zo'e frati zo'e zo'e zo'e} "x1 reacts/responds/a= nswers with action x2 to
> stimulus x3 under conditions x4"
> {zo'e frati} "x1 is responsive"

What's the differnce between responding and being responsive?
=

Responding is an event. Being responsive is a p= roperty.

"Being responsive" = is a state, which is one form of event. It's an event of having the pro= perty of "responsiveness".

=A0being responsive (having the property of responsiveness) =3D/=3D res= ponsiveness

It's the same for "being buoyant".

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--00163630ebbf46a155048606ae0d--