From lojban-beginners+bncCML0xpmUARCq5rPgBBoEqrSVSQ@googlegroups.com Mon Jun 07 06:25:15 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OLcKB-0001xl-MR; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 06:25:15 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf8147525gyd.16 for ; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 06:25:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=9BzOF2NURxbTNH54I7cF+WS7wboOaLYMNa1d8fiaZVU=; b=Gy5t37eqIFCoFp21gn/nGGEjUpCWPpYfroGCGFj9YJ5Cx29Jrh2NKULW+4vpKe6sO0 SVAdID53SgsvXeexAZhkb8ScBHDcD/6hoBErb39rMwxBCjATe6CmuGV2rJrtiyHpFTHR 3QcQQndMTA8d3DbKvbsj/rLj8WCeS8vZnRx6E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=Go633IBr+tpQy2HkfZruZu+z5/+CUXuIzVZt5oYfLzPk1zulXghOVxPrHqwl1igJMb gblQ2V4UvwyjVRqi/Dc5SdE5vM931bSTReQ3ul3Se4iyENGXef3pogrVxvJf4aMpL+vx bJanWeTLPONEaKi8/Xd962LJX1TL/Jv3nmBP4= Received: by 10.151.94.4 with SMTP id w4mr759564ybl.6.1275917098480; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 06:24:58 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.33.42 with SMTP id l42ls3486621ybj.1.p; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 06:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.235.11 with SMTP id i11mr435813ybh.0.1275917097959; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.235.11 with SMTP id i11mr435811ybh.0.1275917097796; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gy0-f171.google.com (mail-gy0-f171.google.com [209.85.160.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id p23si6764642ybc.0.2010.06.07.06.24.56; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 06:24:56 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.171; Received: by gyf3 with SMTP id 3so4981528gyf.2 for ; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 06:24:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.212.18 with SMTP id gq18mr606868qcb.139.1275917094198; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 06:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.170.212 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Jun 2010 06:24:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201006062315.53739.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 09:24:53 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: lojbanic coffee mug From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163631029b29a0460488709982 --00163631029b29a0460488709982 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think lubekano3's bridi/sumti question didn't quite get answered yet; having been new fairly recently I think I see where he's coming from. The idea is that it makes more sense to label something in Lojban in the manner of "This " rather than "This is an object which ". This is pretty much exactly what's being suggested here, with "this" being implicit. (My explanation here may be bad, frankly; please correct any detail mistakes). mu'o mi'e latros. On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 8:44 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > > > On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 11:15 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > >> On Sunday 06 June 2010 15:48:25 lubekano3 wrote: >> > I think I understand the need for an ".i". (I guess I imagined 'title' >> > and 'subtitle' as two utterances, which is probably not a good idea.) >> > Why, on the other hand, would one drop the "le"? I thought it >> > necessary to make clear that this is just 'a' coffee mug, not coffee >> > mugs in general. >> >> Lojban is a predicate-oriented language, so it's generally more natural to >> use >> a bridi for a title, rather than a sumti. In this case, though, it has to >> be >> a sumti, as "kafkabri po la .ieskos" is ungrammatical. >> >> Pierre >> > > Absolutely right.. Sorry.... I should have said "kafkabri fi'o ponse la > ieskos" > --gejyspa > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --00163631029b29a0460488709982 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think lubekano3's bridi/sumti question didn't quite get answered = yet; having been new fairly recently I think I see where he's coming fr= om. The idea is that it makes more sense to label something in Lojban in th= e manner of "This <some relation>" rather than "This i= s an object which <some relation>". This is pretty much exactly = what's being suggested here, with "this" being implicit. (My = explanation here may be bad, frankly; please correct any detail mistakes).<= br>
mu'o mi'e latros.

On Mon, Jun= 7, 2010 at 8:44 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
=


On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at= 11:15 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Sunday 06 June 2010 15:48:25 lubekano3 wrote:
> I think I understand the need for an ".i". (I guess I imagin= ed 'title'
> and 'subtitle' as two utterances, which is probably not a good= idea.)
> Why, on the other hand, would one drop the "le"? I thought i= t
> necessary to make clear that this is just 'a' coffee mug, not = coffee
> mugs in general.

Lojban is a predicate-oriented language, so it's generally more n= atural to use
a bridi for a title, rather than a sumti. In this case, though, it has to b= e
a sumti, as "kafkabri po la .ieskos" is ungrammatical.

Pierre

=A0Absolutely right.. Sorry....= I should have said "kafkabri fi'o ponse la ieskos"
=A0 = =A0 =A0=A0 --gejyspa
=A0

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