From lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBCY7c7gBBoEGr9bsg@googlegroups.com Sat Jun 12 09:32:40 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ONTdK-0008Ui-Mq; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:32:40 -0700 Received: by vws9 with SMTP id 9sf494005vws.16 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:32:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=h6Mu8RH7ak4eJ70J08TyQ+mQ9PRTTVZbgFoILPZPgx0=; b=tWgBYKiVEppPAfxA6BIT9r5vW+zNVhxW0APjGmyq7rKYWMK5ib5W5+XyEezhp3XCBg BuZ9CIUn/HXhhoB8+EetRf6tETJjAVz9Y29aEKvSUm0doc7A4z0Ak8xxGfM2LolRZJM3 czgKZBqBunSD/YYT1VPm+oBkoAL9k3mU9yViU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=yv2dBXc0w6RJEoINrh3F+ZqS2G4ZfqwmKIiIeK7hAS2YPhyH1cLn+3xCtjIhcHuHIM ND1CdPtYyQKuFOUhFzCimCWav6hSpuLhqXA7AKNeAXNuPZUgPALsSmJDOGRTlKj5NDwX c9yZOfhQSIGrPVO02j/aPB5NLLw9zkUBwKKSw= Received: by 10.220.124.32 with SMTP id s32mr60536vcr.2.1276360344894; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:32:24 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.69.146 with SMTP id z18ls234863vci.1.p; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.200.203 with SMTP id ex11mr235284vcb.5.1276360344238; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.200.203 with SMTP id ex11mr235283vcb.5.1276360344116; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f42.google.com (mail-vw0-f42.google.com [209.85.212.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id f14si216730vcm.2.2010.06.12.09.32.23; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.42; Received: by vws13 with SMTP id 13so2579866vws.15 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:32:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.89.135 with SMTP id e7mr898764vcm.53.1276360342795; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.73.12 with HTTP; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:32:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:32:22 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Libraries: attempted lujvo coinage From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64764b4d677450488d7cc1c --0016e64764b4d677450488d7cc1c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 sorry, I guess I meant {na'e} not {na}. I didn't realize that you couldn't put {na} onto a specific word in a tanru. I wasn't saying {le ckule cu ckusro} I was making a tanru to say {ckule ckusro} (a school type of library) and then was filling in the internal places of both to make it a "with pupil me - type of school" and a "library with book(s) " (oh, but saying that it's NOT that kind of library since you're saying the library is the "doesn't have " type of library :-p ) To be sure, the second example is shaky. I was just trying to see if I could make "library" be the main selbri. On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: > The second one seems wrong to me, because the school itself is not a > library in general, and so even if the book in question was one they had the > sentence would still be true. And I dunno, {ckusro} seems like the better > relation to use for "having a book" in the sense of a library, better than > {ponse}, at least; the kind of possession of a book that a library is > involved in seems somewhat different from generic possession. Also, as I > said I was trying to avoid {pe} (and the nesting structure that is > equivalent to it) as best as possible; I find it useful for things that > aren't compact otherwise but prefer to avoid it when possible. > > > mu'o mi'e latros. > > On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> why not just use {ckusro} (which already exists in jbovlaste) and {ponse}. >> {le mi ckule ckusro cu na'e ponse la } >> >> Or {ckule be fo mi be'o na ckusro be la } -> >> [something] is a school of me type of [NOT] library with book > book>. >> >> The second example there seems clunky to me. I think the base >> relationship is {ponse} or something like it. >> >> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: >> >>> I attempted to say something along the lines of: >>> My university's library does not have . >>> preferably without having to use {pe}. My attempt was using a somewhat >>> long lujvo, seljitckusro, which I defined as: >>> x1 is a library containing books x2 managed by x3. >>> (The underlying tanru was {se jitro ke cukta sorcu}.) >>> and then the construction (with the book being the last sumti of the >>> previous sentence) was: >>> .i ri na se seljitckusro fi lo balcu'e be fo mi >>> Does this seem reasonable? I don't have much practice coining lujvo but >>> am attempting to get better at it. >>> >>> mu'o mi'e latros. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0016e64764b4d677450488d7cc1c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable sorry, I guess I meant {na'e} not {na}. =A0I didn't realize that yo= u couldn't put {na} onto a specific word in a tanru.

I wasn't saying {le ckule cu ckusro} I was making a tanru to say {ckul= e ckusro} (a school type of library) and then was filling in the internal p= laces of both to make it a "with pupil me - type of school" and a= "library with book(s) <some book>" (oh, but saying that it= 's NOT that kind of library since you're saying the library is the = "doesn't have <some book>" type of library :-p )

To be sure, the second example is shaky. =A0I was just = trying to see if I could make "library" be the main selbri.

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Ia= n Johnson <b= lindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
The second one seems wrong to me, because t= he school itself is not a library in general, and so even if the book in qu= estion was one they had the sentence would still be true. And I dunno, {cku= sro} seems like the better relation to use for "having a book" in= the sense of a library, better than {ponse}, at least; the kind of possess= ion of a book that a library is involved in seems somewhat different from g= eneric possession. Also, as I said I was trying to avoid {pe} (and the nest= ing structure that is equivalent to it) as best as possible; I find it usef= ul for things that aren't compact otherwise but prefer to avoid it when= possible.


mu'o mi'e latros.

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Luke Bergen <= span dir=3D"ltr"><lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
why not just use {ckusro} (which already exists in jbovlaste) and {ponse}. = =A0{le mi ckule ckusro cu na'e ponse la <a particular book>}
=
Or {ckule be fo mi be'o na ckusro be la <a particular= book>} -> [something] is a school of me type of [NOT] library with b= ook <a particular book>.

The second example there seems clunky to me. =A0I think= the base relationship is {ponse} or something like it.

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Ian = Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
<= /div>
I attempted to say something along the lines of:
My university's library does not have <a particular book>.
preferably without having to use {pe}. My attempt was using a somewhat long= lujvo, seljitckusro, which I defined as:
x1 is a library containing books x2 managed by x3.
(The underlying tanru= was {se jitro ke cukta sorcu}.)
and then the construction (with the boo= k being the last sumti of the previous sentence) was:
.i ri na se = seljitckusro fi lo balcu'e be fo mi
Does this seem reasonable? I don't have much practice coining lujvo but= am attempting to get better at it.

mu'o mi'e latros.

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