From lojban-beginners+bncCML0xpmUARC7987gBBoEyjMEsQ@googlegroups.com Sat Jun 12 09:54:33 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ONTyW-0006dB-LM; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:54:33 -0700 Received: by vws9 with SMTP id 9sf502444vws.16 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:54:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ov/Yi4sdcG7FSScXExicVd//+Xwa28E9f6kbN3XZ30M=; b=lcBd1osZgie5Sc58O7Dj3Lx9KLaCG9op/Ute3sLdSnesZTK4JgbjuSEgNRMGdMNH4r aKv2ZQbNUm5Tks5cQcjlDOb3JimgAQBtJyaAjE53ihpth5ivg46cnRRmhttYymsGIlsn JWdWBb90DVUCICm9nS0gNagV4BxfWdLCzMIbc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=2sVJg5fAW4dxazaIOoCDvFHoeGHWfRse9b3Zg3BSrB8IxbvMrxX7/Ypk837b9sXrDT ioc0a5yt963ceKfC+80Rql8NeHfTC3fHSsJS795lILrBtzMMmGMdHmkd9L6U0yd7WQH+ dcspCKjSqBPgj+SbKIgXcd0AJrHEQao89hofQ= Received: by 10.220.123.198 with SMTP id q6mr62340vcr.51.1276361659456; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:54:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.69.146 with SMTP id z18ls242238vci.1.p; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.200.194 with SMTP id ex2mr256327vcb.8.1276361658887; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.200.194 with SMTP id ex2mr256325vcb.8.1276361658844; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f46.google.com (mail-vw0-f46.google.com [209.85.212.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id g35si221010vck.13.2010.06.12.09.54.17; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.46 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.46; Received: by mail-vw0-f46.google.com with SMTP id 19so746985vws.19 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:54:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.115.27 with SMTP id g27mr1347080qaq.311.1276361657444; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.130.143 with HTTP; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:54:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:54:17 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Libraries: attempted lujvo coinage From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09f9b09f5326c250488d81bf2 --00c09f9b09f5326c250488d81bf2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Might {co} help to make that example work better? I see what you're doing, though, although again you're going into the same kind of thing as {pe}, somewhat, by using a tanru for what seems like a relatively basic concept (a library has a certain collection of books and is managed by some person(s), almost without exception.) mu'o mi'e latros. On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > sorry, I guess I meant {na'e} not {na}. I didn't realize that you couldn't > put {na} onto a specific word in a tanru. > > I wasn't saying {le ckule cu ckusro} I was making a tanru to say {ckule > ckusro} (a school type of library) and then was filling in the internal > places of both to make it a "with pupil me - type of school" and a "library > with book(s) " (oh, but saying that it's NOT that kind of library > since you're saying the library is the "doesn't have " type of > library :-p ) > > To be sure, the second example is shaky. I was just trying to see if I > could make "library" be the main selbri. > > On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: > >> The second one seems wrong to me, because the school itself is not a >> library in general, and so even if the book in question was one they had the >> sentence would still be true. And I dunno, {ckusro} seems like the better >> relation to use for "having a book" in the sense of a library, better than >> {ponse}, at least; the kind of possession of a book that a library is >> involved in seems somewhat different from generic possession. Also, as I >> said I was trying to avoid {pe} (and the nesting structure that is >> equivalent to it) as best as possible; I find it useful for things that >> aren't compact otherwise but prefer to avoid it when possible. >> >> >> mu'o mi'e latros. >> >> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: >> >>> why not just use {ckusro} (which already exists in jbovlaste) and >>> {ponse}. {le mi ckule ckusro cu na'e ponse la } >>> >>> Or {ckule be fo mi be'o na ckusro be la } -> >>> [something] is a school of me type of [NOT] library with book >> book>. >>> >>> The second example there seems clunky to me. I think the base >>> relationship is {ponse} or something like it. >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: >>> >>>> I attempted to say something along the lines of: >>>> My university's library does not have . >>>> preferably without having to use {pe}. My attempt was using a somewhat >>>> long lujvo, seljitckusro, which I defined as: >>>> x1 is a library containing books x2 managed by x3. >>>> (The underlying tanru was {se jitro ke cukta sorcu}.) >>>> and then the construction (with the book being the last sumti of the >>>> previous sentence) was: >>>> .i ri na se seljitckusro fi lo balcu'e be fo mi >>>> Does this seem reasonable? I don't have much practice coining lujvo but >>>> am attempting to get better at it. >>>> >>>> mu'o mi'e latros. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --00c09f9b09f5326c250488d81bf2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Might {co} help to make that example work better? I see what you're doi= ng, though, although again you're going into the same kind of thing as = {pe}, somewhat, by using a tanru for what seems like a relatively basic con= cept (a library has a certain collection of books and is managed by some pe= rson(s), almost without exception.)

mu'o mi'e latros.

On Sat, Jun= 12, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
sorry, I guess I meant {na'e} not {na}. =A0I didn't realize that yo= u couldn't put {na} onto a specific word in a tanru.

I wasn't saying {le ckule cu ckusro} I was making a tanru to say {ckul= e ckusro} (a school type of library) and then was filling in the internal p= laces of both to make it a "with pupil me - type of school" and a= "library with book(s) <some book>" (oh, but saying that it= 's NOT that kind of library since you're saying the library is the = "doesn't have <some book>" type of library :-p )

To be sure, the second example is shaky. =A0I was just = trying to see if I could make "library" be the main selbri.

O= n Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com= > wrote:
The second one se= ems wrong to me, because the school itself is not a library in general, and= so even if the book in question was one they had the sentence would still = be true. And I dunno, {ckusro} seems like the better relation to use for &q= uot;having a book" in the sense of a library, better than {ponse}, at = least; the kind of possession of a book that a library is involved in seems= somewhat different from generic possession. Also, as I said I was trying t= o avoid {pe} (and the nesting structure that is equivalent to it) as best a= s possible; I find it useful for things that aren't compact otherwise b= ut prefer to avoid it when possible.


mu'o mi'e latros.

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabe= rgen@gmail.com> wrote:
why not just use {ckusro} (which already exists in jbovlaste) and {ponse}. = =A0{le mi ckule ckusro cu na'e ponse la <a particular book>}
=
Or {ckule be fo mi be'o na ckusro be la <a particular= book>} -> [something] is a school of me type of [NOT] library with b= ook <a particular book>.

The second example there seems clunky to me. =A0I think= the base relationship is {ponse} or something like it.

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Ian = Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
=
I attempted to say something along the lines of:
My university's library does not have <a particular book>.
preferably without having to use {pe}. My attempt was using a somewhat long= lujvo, seljitckusro, which I defined as:
x1 is a library containing books x2 managed by x3.
(The underlying tanru= was {se jitro ke cukta sorcu}.)
and then the construction (with the boo= k being the last sumti of the previous sentence) was:
.i ri na se = seljitckusro fi lo balcu'e be fo mi
Does this seem reasonable? I don't have much practice coining lujvo but= am attempting to get better at it.

mu'o mi'e latros.

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