From lojban-beginners+bncCK30vq5WENmKzuEEGgSvp_hW@googlegroups.com Tue Jul 06 12:35:06 2010 Received: from mail-pw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OWDuy-0004fy-GB; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:35:05 -0700 Received: by pwi10 with SMTP id 10sf2134123pwi.16 for ; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:34:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:date:from:to:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=NAp3Ni9pJST4g2jsXyp7VUBxifRXhAJgbTWDtAwvuQA=; b=HUs5rB5Wl6VGc8gbMlwwzWZHT0B/iJuy1vCDchrdR29LL4Hsb35r2RcUgp08hTVNwe tvB8fDun4nYprAkaCrefukxyUdUfRlTYahKlGQTJSz7PNIf/9cDzN3zYr/S9WkalZftZ G5JyOkCVLcnILXmDTAWpLKAfJsISnIxY6zcV4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=xVYwPybr1RsDhVUugobQw57rw2Ruma17t2IXuyxPaFCFbRUqAbB3W8pzUWAnUiWiy0 svA7CDf7Kb7okhkVzjND2CIYXzXhayDADjP/LTSYvN8P+UCv83z0doNSC3BIgXzMA0R7 XdqLq75ZWARzgSmZ6yTPyHx3f6GknRE1ucYRM= Received: by 10.142.121.35 with SMTP id t35mr324006wfc.0.1278444889062; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:34:49 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.143.26.15 with SMTP id d15ls687955wfj.2.p; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.207.5 with SMTP id e5mr313514wfg.39.1278444887357; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.207.5 with SMTP id e5mr313511wfg.39.1278444887319; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org (chain.digitalkingdom.org [64.81.66.169]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id i10si5156989wfa.5.2010.07.06.12.34.47; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 64.81.66.169 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.81.66.169; Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OWDun-0004bg-SC for lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:34:46 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:34:45 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] lo do ckiku ma zvati Message-ID: <20100706193445.GD1443@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100302162057.GA14827@alice.local> <20100706004832.GL23879@digitalkingdom.org> <20100706164224.GA30521@alice.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20100706164224.GA30521@alice.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 64.81.66.169 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Tue, Jul 06, 2010 at 10:42:24AM -0600, Alan Post wrote: > On IRC, I was told (I think by xorxes) that it is standard > procedure to teach newbies all the elidable terminators and only > after practicing with them begin to practice without them. > > It didn't quite fit my own intuition, but I was trying to adopt > the best practice we've discovered for teaching Lojban. I'm happy > to discuss this. It may turn out there isn't concensus on which > is best. On the one hand, I utterly disagree that teching even the *existance* of terminators to a beginner is a good idea. 90+% of all conversational WAYK-type sentences can be said with exactly on {cu} and no terminators, and so they should be taught that way. On the other hand, I haven't done any active teaching of Lojban to anyone from scratch in 8+ years, except at jbonunsla. At jbonunsla, where we usually have a live class for 1-3 students, My recollection is that confuse the hell out of people, and we avoid them like the plague. OTOH, it never occured to use to teach them as required and then drop them later. There are other people who have done much more teaching more recently than I have, though; if they've got students that are conversationally fluent and have learned that way, I'd love to hear about it. -Robin -- http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.