From lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhCc6vLjBBoEI7OXFg@googlegroups.com Tue Aug 31 00:54:38 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OqLfu-00051p-FP; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:54:38 -0700 Received: by mail-ww0-f61.google.com with SMTP id 26sf2046588wwf.16 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:54:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Z487wbzuaY3y3a6MEhpQixFPqomi/pvhlwC9xeN/l1g=; b=VCtprOzcvH48e+oSwJ0BdDg2p0KKbumNOA9hA40RqF0NiF8hDE1yIU26UBJ3MpJMvX Fl5cQKkHlmN2cagb/X7+qVVKkELpx8hbdSjJweh2H+2TplvYgw77KeaWSRKtL4v0QKR2 32QxDUkrVkilkSwen1TPOM6iNkMugCXRpwWF0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=6/XnI5Q+0jsy5N7wXRDCe8vNYv43nTDmLijW+lLWHqvqkxZ7J16C433K6HL2kWYhwL 3zs2Luhd6BlArK620m5Bt1a7OCVWiVEozuaN0Bvi3IsOh5Z/Pxp54fXdKO8T5/bQngGT OeELNyZYoJiocmhvIhJkSvgOZmpC/IzzaY8TY= Received: by 10.216.144.38 with SMTP id m38mr1083165wej.14.1283241244099; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:54:04 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.242.202 with SMTP id i52ls164725wer.0.p; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.35.75 with SMTP id t53mr198232wea.11.1283241242790; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.35.75 with SMTP id t53mr198230wea.11.1283241242743; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f42.google.com (mail-ww0-f42.google.com [74.125.82.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id x37si2937813weq.8.2010.08.31.00.54.00; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:54:01 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.42; Received: by mail-ww0-f42.google.com with SMTP id 14so882869wwi.1 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:53:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.86.15 with SMTP id v15mr5998259wee.9.1283241217215; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.93.65 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:53:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 01:53:37 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: ma krinu lonu lo jbopre na tavla fo la.lojban. ne'i levi snustu | Why aren't we speaking in Lojban in here? From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com, lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d99904e9cf19048f19e06c --0016e6d99904e9cf19048f19e06c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:04 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > Firstly, I know that Lojban is not the first language of anyone in these > groups. I know that very few of us have good grasp of the language. It is > also apparent that all of us know English, seeing as how that's the language > we are primarily using to communicate with each other here. > > I know there *used* to be a mailing list specifically for speaking in > Lojban. I have no idea whether it still exists or not. I do know that at > least at one time I was subscribed to it, and during that time, possibly > including up to the present, the was little to no activity on there. > > There are the IRC rooms as well, which are also for Lojbanic discussions. > Every time I am (infrequently) on IRC, I see either no active discussions, > or I see active discussions about Lojban being held in English. > > I very occasionally see discussions being held in Lojban in a group thread, > but these threads almost always die out rather quickly, with my guess to the > cause being the lack of interest in reading something that needs to be > translated before it can be understood. I admit to having been guilty of > this myself. > > I very highly doubt anyone will disagree that the only way to effectively > learn a language is to USE it. The more the better. In high school, over ten > years ago, I took 2 years of Latin. I learned quite a bit, and at one point > I was even able to write whole essays in it. However, I never used it > outside of Latin class, and so today, I can remember that there are ten(?) > forms of nouns, and that's about it. > > I do not profess to be an expert in Lojban. I do believe I'm pretty good > with the grammar, but my grasp of the actual vocabulary is very poor. This > lack is specifically the reason I created the Smart.fm lessons, with help > from assorted people, notably Oren and RLP. > > My point is, we should be using this language as much as possible. We all > do, after all, profess a desire to be proficient in it, do we not? To be > able to speak in Lojban as well as we speak in our native tongues? > > There are numerous tools to aid us in using the language, until we are that > proficient. When I first joined this community, I used jboskieverytime I encountered anything said in these groups in Lojban. I had to. I > couldn't possibly have understood what was being said otherwise, without a > horrendous amount of effort spent looking up *every* *single* *word*. Now > there's this wonderful thing someone pointed out just a few days ago called > GoldenDict. I tried it, it's really useful. Now when I encounter a word in > Lojban I don't know, all I have to do is move my mouse over the word and > press a button, and this window pops up telling me what it means. Since I > can parse grammatical Lojban on my own, the only time I use jboski now is > when I'm making sure that what I *write* is grammatical. > > Now, obviously, I'm guilty of the very thing I'm ranting about right now > with this message. My reasons for this are: I'm not currently proficient at > Lojban, this is a very long rant, and I highly doubt anyone would bother > reading this if it were in Lojban. > > If you actually read this entire thing, you have my gratitude. If you wish > to respond, I would be very, very happy if you did so in Lojban. And if, in > future, you see something written in Lojban, here in these groups or > elsewhere, do us both a favour, and make your response be in the same > language. > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu > > .i levi se casnu cu se srana ledu'u mi krici ledu'u lonu le casnu be lo ba'e lojbo verskina cu tavla fo lo glibau cu zdile betri -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0016e6d99904e9cf19048f19e06c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:04 AM, Jonathan Jones = <eyeonus@gmail.co= m> wrote:
Firstly, I know that Lojban is not the first language of anyone in these gr= oups. I know that very few of us have good grasp of the language. It is als= o apparent that all of us know English, seeing as how that's the langua= ge we are primarily using to communicate with each other here.

I know there *used* to be a mailing list specifically for speaking in L= ojban. I have no idea whether it still exists or not. I do know that at lea= st at one time I was subscribed to it, and during that time, possibly inclu= ding up to the present, the was little to no activity on there.

There are the IRC rooms as well, which are also for Lojbanic discussion= s. Every time I am (infrequently) on IRC, I see either no active discussion= s, or I see active discussions about Lojban being held in English.

I very occasionally see discussions being held in Lojban in a group thread,= but these threads almost always die out rather quickly, with my guess to t= he cause being the lack of interest in reading something that needs to be t= ranslated before it can be understood. I admit to having been guilty of thi= s myself.

I very highly doubt anyone will disagree that the only way to effective= ly learn a language is to USE it. The more the better. In high school, over= ten years ago, I took 2 years of Latin. I learned quite a bit, and at one = point I was even able to write whole essays in it. However, I never used it= outside of Latin class, and so today, I can remember that there are ten(?)= forms of nouns, and that's about it.

I do not profess to be an expert in Lojban. I do believe I'm pretty= good with the grammar, but my grasp of the actual vocabulary is very poor.= This lack is specifically the reason I created the Smart.fm lessons, with = help from assorted people, notably Oren and RLP.

My point is, we should be using this language as much as possible. We a= ll do, after all, profess a desire to be proficient in it, do we not? To be= able to speak in Lojban as well as we speak in our native tongues?

There are numerous tools to aid us in using the language, until we are = that proficient. When I first joined this community, I used jboski everytime I encounte= red anything said in these groups in Lojban. I had to. I couldn't possi= bly have understood what was being said otherwise, without a horrendous amo= unt of effort spent looking up *every* *single* *word*. Now there's thi= s wonderful thing someone pointed out just a few days ago called GoldenDict= . I tried it, it's really useful. Now when I encounter a word in Lojban= I don't know, all I have to do is move my mouse over the word and pres= s a button, and this window pops up telling me what it means. Since I can p= arse grammatical Lojban on my own, the only time I use jboski now is when I= 'm making sure that what I *write* is grammatical.

Now, obviously, I'm guilty of the very thing I'm ranting about = right now with this message. My reasons for this are: I'm not currently= proficient at Lojban, this is a very long rant, and I highly doubt anyone = would bother reading this if it were in Lojban.

If you actually read this entire thing, you have my gratitude. If you w= ish to respond, I would be very, very happy if you did so in Lojban. And if= , in future, you see something written in Lojban, here in these groups or e= lsewhere, do us both a favour, and make your response be in the same langua= ge.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le= bende pe denpa bu


.i levi se casnu cu se srana ledu'u mi kr= ici ledu'u lonu le casnu be lo ba'e lojbo verskina cu tavla fo lo g= libau cu zdile betri

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.=

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu

--
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