From lojban-beginners+bncCKv97aq_GRCklo3kBBoELoryUw@googlegroups.com Sun Sep 05 00:48:24 2010 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Os9xb-0005CB-M3; Sun, 05 Sep 2010 00:48:23 -0700 Received: by fxm17 with SMTP id 17sf463344fxm.16 for ; Sun, 05 Sep 2010 00:48:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=qQGQF7F0OVW0k4qlLao8OPkZ2m9JqB6URct5BhG8YDQ=; b=RIlV45E6QQ1I8jCmjCiFDUfE64IcaYmUmv3zBhccUFWOhKwakgSmVirhngJYQ1c5nx 8SnmHt9qLLKICuD+lT1g75fWqEKzzGRPjSqN980zL/zQJ1dZ3H856kPW7g2zLqn2TT7C vPheTIzMzHLfkKHu4yMSQhvojr4us70HuWgOI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=Ib6bIWIdfNQamTZHItLJ9j7f6j+pJtpaicGbZ0pc47P5UCidA85KgOSR3jZpne0bsg clyCALeJBfo/0prz1A2jwcvokv3urmVZTJPDbK8CbGFSUoBNnhVNVp15QtmG+1YuEhHm xcr8wX5o9M8KZO2Wg1p8RiJY9c/JIfzMi2t50= Received: by 10.223.91.139 with SMTP id n11mr79153fam.45.1283672868783; Sun, 05 Sep 2010 00:47:48 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.223.59.212 with SMTP id m20ls722700fah.3.p; Sun, 05 Sep 2010 00:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.123.202 with SMTP id q10mr155808far.14.1283672867975; Sun, 05 Sep 2010 00:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.123.202 with SMTP id q10mr155807far.14.1283672867940; Sun, 05 Sep 2010 00:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f41.google.com (mail-bw0-f41.google.com [209.85.214.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id q13si1045674faa.15.2010.09.05.00.47.46; Sun, 05 Sep 2010 00:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lamelnyk@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.41; Received: by bwz6 with SMTP id 6so3325421bwz.0 for ; Sun, 05 Sep 2010 00:47:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.117.136 with SMTP id r8mr1921421bkq.119.1283672866606; Sun, 05 Sep 2010 00:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.5.84 with HTTP; Sun, 5 Sep 2010 00:47:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201009042054.50156.jezuch@interia.pl> References: <201009042054.50156.jezuch@interia.pl> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 10:47:46 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] ko curmi le nu mi ninpengau do mi From: Oleksii Melnyk To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lamelnyk@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lamelnyk@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lamelnyk@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d7e04538d041048f7e6199 --0016e6d7e04538d041048f7e6199 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 2010/9/4 Krzysztof Sobolewski > But this looks very unlike "learn" as it is understood in my language (one > of the Slavic family ;) ) where you can learn something (or be learning > something) and that's it. The definition above seems to be "polluted" by the English meaning of > "learn", > Not at all. I just think, the "learn" comes to the Slavic languages too late, or just was too insignificant to add more "grammatical cases" (that works almost like the lojban's "sumti places") to support the common "objects", involved in the action of learning. However, at least 4 (not counting always usable prepositional/vocative) of the existing "cases" of Russian/Ukrainian (the only two, I know), can still be used with "learn". I've never seen that in the wild, but can understand the meaning. So, "can learn something and that's it", is a bit too strong, it can also have "instrumental"(almost = "fu" of cilre) and "dative". Sorry for the terminology, I've never was familiar with it even in my native languages. -- mu'o mi'e lex -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. 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2010/9/4 Krzysztof Sobolewski <jezuch@interia.pl>=
But this looks very unlike "learn" as it is understood in my lang= uage (one of the Slavic family ;) ) where you can learn something (or be le= arning something) and that's it.
The definition above seems to be "polluted" by the English meani= ng of "learn",

Not at all. I just think= , the "learn" comes to the Slavic languages too late, or just was= too insignificant to add more "grammatical cases" (that works al= most like the lojban's "sumti places") to support the common = "objects", involved in the action of learning. However, at least = 4 (not counting always usable prepositional/vocative) of the existing "= ;cases" of Russian/Ukrainian (the only two, I know), can still be used= with "learn". I've never seen that in the wild, but can unde= rstand the meaning. So, "can learn something and that's it", = is a bit too strong, it can also have "instrumental"(almost =3D &= quot;fu" of cilre) and "dative".

Sorry for the terminology, I've never was familiar with it even i= n my native languages.

--
mu'o mi'e lex

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