From lojban-beginners+bncCJrK5PGGEBC31JjkBBoEaeLLRw@googlegroups.com Tue Sep 07 05:04:51 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Oswul-0005Pa-Ew; Tue, 07 Sep 2010 05:04:51 -0700 Received: by gwb11 with SMTP id 11sf8453601gwb.16 for ; Tue, 07 Sep 2010 05:04:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:received:received:from :organization:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id :x-interia-antivirus:x-emid:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=A+hrwfpS0iiQAJD2FzU1BQPapSXQfz8grbOk0eBu28U=; b=yDUbi9gKzh+sZqDTNjAfHbf/FFpXrXHtk6kqXxkfaDMKKMlKvmdcAxI2dzNopHuZsl RDQ+sXx0GVyqzifT/2kKf7cILpwdfMEbg2FNkpF3EaluOeOqDKes0lCWmFffx/2jPL57 lwBfmbc4Ac7oGkWzeL1hTridcnPrvO+Pb7hsg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:from:organization:to:subject:date :user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:x-interia-antivirus:x-emid :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; b=4P9WNFAR3Es7bX4W8TIQd5b6YHYqOYfDy+HppVj15srbWdQsHSU7eVbdvchXfpcC/c zmLzLP87ia8ioW0PgQgo5hzmuN8kZlpfA7q8sbOFzrjdkBn8fTgUYGYA1ziMbjlcgQwE j91VgAMH9irArvvCoRRq6bntUGq85VcBq4ons= Received: by 10.91.53.12 with SMTP id f12mr962379agk.30.1283861047252; Tue, 07 Sep 2010 05:04:07 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.130.13 with SMTP id h13ls1866826ybn.2.p; Tue, 07 Sep 2010 05:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.143.19 with SMTP id v19mr1556809ybn.33.1283861046367; Tue, 07 Sep 2010 05:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.53.75 with SMTP id f51mr334031eec.12.1283797758638; Mon, 06 Sep 2010 11:29:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.53.75 with SMTP id f51mr334030eec.12.1283797758602; Mon, 06 Sep 2010 11:29:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpo.poczta.interia.pl (smtpo.poczta.interia.pl [217.74.65.205]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id r57si6054945eeh.1.2010.09.06.11.29.18; Mon, 06 Sep 2010 11:29:18 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jezuch@interia.pl designates 217.74.65.205 as permitted sender) client-ip=217.74.65.205; Received: by smtpo.poczta.interia.pl (INTERIA.PL, from userid 502) id 542BB105B10D; Mon, 6 Sep 2010 20:29:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from zx-spectrum-1 (c204.idd156.nettete.pl [77.79.204.156]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.interia.pl (INTERIA.PL) with ESMTPSA for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2010 20:29:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jezuch by zx-spectrum-1 with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OsgY6-00027a-18 for lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; Mon, 06 Sep 2010 20:36:10 +0200 From: Krzysztof Sobolewski Organization: Sobole To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] ko curmi le nu mi ninpengau do mi Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 20:36:05 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (Linux/2.6.33.7; KDE/4.4.5; x86_64; ; ) References: <201009042054.50156.jezuch@interia.pl> <201009051348.38065.jezuch@interia.pl> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart9806613.HETrPHs0pk"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201009062036.09967.jezuch@interia.pl> X-Interia-Antivirus: OK X-EMID: 88948acc X-Original-Sender: jezuch@interia.pl X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jezuch@interia.pl designates 217.74.65.205 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jezuch@interia.pl Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , --nextPart9806613.HETrPHs0pk Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dnia poniedzia=C5=82ek, 6 wrze=C5=9Bnia 2010 o 20:00:15 Oleksii Melnyk napi= sa=C5=82(a): > 2010/9/5 Krzysztof Sobolewski >=20 > > Yes, that's the whole idea of grammatical cases, isn't it? :) >=20 > Have you tried to use all of the cases in one simple sentence? You'll fou= nd, > that, =E2=88=83 a lot of verbs, such that =E2=88=83 some cases, that usin= g it in the simple > sentence with that verb gives a garbage. Take, for example, "BOJ=C4=84CY = SI=C4=98". That would be "ba=C4=87 si=C4=99", I think. > In > both of mine native lang's, using roughly a half of the available cases w= ith > it causes nonsense. Here in lojbanistan, we say "that predicate have 2 su= mti > spaces". "dowiadywa=C4=87 si=C4=99" have 4, "uczy=C4=87 si=C4=99", probab= ly, 3 (:too lazy to > check:). I'm not a linguist, so I'll refrain from going too far where I don't know w= hat I'm talking about, sorry ;) > Most of English verbs, afaik, have not more than 2. So, "cilre" 3/2 less > =C2=AB"polluted" by the English meaning=C2=BB, as =C2=ABby the russian=C2= =BB =E2=80=94 it does have > "instrumental"(by) from "ours" languages, and just moved rarely usable > "dative" to "seva'u", while "raised" more frequent "from" and "about" :) It still looks like a confusing mix of two different concepts to me. But my= understanding is polluted by Polish meanings ;) =2D-=20 Ecce Jezuch "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired" =2D O. Osbourne --nextPart9806613.HETrPHs0pk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkyFNJYACgkQy0fq9RM+TxjxAACgzimGNK5N5RS8HC+0jiCf//kp NAMAniU/xxcqgxhtI3FoN/5QgNZlt/AT =9Y26 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart9806613.HETrPHs0pk--