From lojban-beginners+bncCJrK5PGGEBCKlJ3kBBoEJJfjwQ@googlegroups.com Wed Sep 08 01:32:56 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OtG5A-0005sN-94; Wed, 08 Sep 2010 01:32:56 -0700 Received: by gxk9 with SMTP id 9sf10219214gxk.16 for ; Wed, 08 Sep 2010 01:32:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:received:received:from :organization:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id :x-interia-antivirus:x-emid:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=e4z5qk39wfsj06G8rmnAQglAq7fHybwFtKhn3mFflgs=; b=u0HGyZ88ccWo25ceXtK+ytjl+wmDV4AXbzLnwv/V+S7xjk0oduKzX16qckPheHfPYg zHjsNgifbRmekQhZCKDc6HuZQoLpg5pEcJbOZ9J+Ko85rCdvQmAFBsvFSvLgZIE0ZFAt 5JUCDTjN72DniMDeSHX/NmPvb0tUmHuxdLMdA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:from:organization:to:subject:date :user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:x-interia-antivirus:x-emid :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; b=jISUonm1hB+wbZJ602aawTOzhuxbpMh26bqp6AnxZHS4StyDxJ0HE2+XAJ1BN/9CTm nX5xtUjeL9wyOztziHhpErIIMtOuKMEwyQfR269yuFArG147WFc7U6Ba3uOcXpavzgUq GItLCYx7vhL2Mbmi3D0NvkFabdK86HY/t8GTg= Received: by 10.91.9.1 with SMTP id m1mr1014023agi.35.1283934730411; Wed, 08 Sep 2010 01:32:10 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.48.3 with SMTP id v3ls1077642ybv.5.p; Wed, 08 Sep 2010 01:32:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.102.9 with SMTP id e9mr1351845ybm.49.1283934728554; Wed, 08 Sep 2010 01:32:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.14.78 with SMTP id c54mr432205eec.29.1283879712172; Tue, 07 Sep 2010 10:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.14.78 with SMTP id c54mr432204eec.29.1283879712128; Tue, 07 Sep 2010 10:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpo.poczta.interia.pl (smtpo.poczta.interia.pl [217.74.65.205]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id b5si7307445eei.0.2010.09.07.10.15.12; Tue, 07 Sep 2010 10:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jezuch@interia.pl designates 217.74.65.205 as permitted sender) client-ip=217.74.65.205; Received: by smtpo.poczta.interia.pl (INTERIA.PL, from userid 502) id 586A010A550B; Tue, 7 Sep 2010 19:15:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from zx-spectrum-1 (c204.idd156.nettete.pl [77.79.204.156]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.interia.pl (INTERIA.PL) with ESMTPSA for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2010 19:15:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jezuch by zx-spectrum-1 with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ot1re-0003WK-Ds for lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:21:46 +0200 From: Krzysztof Sobolewski Organization: Sobole To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] ko curmi le nu mi ninpengau do mi Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 19:21:41 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (Linux/2.6.33.7; KDE/4.4.5; x86_64; ; ) References: <201009042054.50156.jezuch@interia.pl> <201009062036.09967.jezuch@interia.pl> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1967376.XcDPSkf8P2"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201009071921.46236.jezuch@interia.pl> X-Interia-Antivirus: OK X-EMID: cd648acc X-Original-Sender: jezuch@interia.pl X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jezuch@interia.pl designates 217.74.65.205 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jezuch@interia.pl Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , --nextPart1967376.XcDPSkf8P2 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dnia wtorek, 7 wrze=C5=9Bnia 2010 o 16:59:39 Alex Rozenshteyn napisa=C5=82(= a): > It may also be interesting to mention that "polluted by X" and "borrowed > from X" in this case, mean similar things, and simply ascribe different > values to them. I remember reading that lojban takes the some of best > features known in natural languages. That's quite apparent... Like concept of topics borrowed from Chinese (and = Japanese AFAIK). And I understand that gismu are meant to have as inclusive= meaning as possible (it's easier to narrow it down in tanru or lujvo than = to expand). > Why should having a distinction not found in one language be considered > negative? Well, it *is* confusing to someone coming from a background where that dist= inction is made :) I guess people from China would have a lot to say about = that ;) > 4 different ways to give a reason, and several event contours are > distinctions not found in English, but I find the lojbanisms pleasantly > different. Yes, using one word to contain meaning four or five things (subject to conv= ersions) is very powerful. > Also, question: I grew up speaking Russian, although I don't know the > grammar well, but I was under the impression that "cases" referred to the= 6 > declensions of a noun, In Polish it's 7 :) Case is an attribute of nouns, but there are limits to = combinations of verbs and cases of nouns. > while "aspects" refer to something similar to what > lojban calls event contours. It would appear so. In Polish AFAIK there are basically two aspects: contnu= ative ("uczy=C4=87 si=C4=99", meaning that the process of learning continue= s) and cessative ("nauczy=C4=87 si=C4=99", meaning that the learning is fin= ished) (if I'm translating correctly). Note that the latter is separate fro= m tense (although it doesn't make sense in present tense) - "nauczy=C5=82em= si=C4=99" (in past) and "naucz=C4=99 si=C4=99" (in future). =2D-=20 Ecce Jezuch "Hell is other people" - J-P. Sartre --nextPart1967376.XcDPSkf8P2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkyGdKUACgkQy0fq9RM+TxhAvgCg0wMRXDMDcMfiJbmRCZqeQkfe 9p8An1dqpKheuS9g7HOFgWXcF6qxvfK5 =mpNH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1967376.XcDPSkf8P2--