From lojban-beginners+bncCIGU4ftvEPi0pOQEGgRoYCZb@googlegroups.com Thu Sep 09 10:34:20 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Otl0p-0002KZ-AR; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 10:34:19 -0700 Received: by wwe15 with SMTP id 15sf296031wwe.16 for ; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 10:34:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:message-id:date :from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=OK9ttGXNkH9oXkNEzFsxV2Jrz8uNzccaPp659RAuSr0=; b=41bnsIbJyjV/+JrBqjTk5ldXc2lHf3VHKDtogw+u9v+qc/xaaCFVGjZVO63hEptXpK MapKVHdfDwz7fP5j3ZdScOYHq1v5/KL3eslFyteveJA8+NeP9PPZcHWZKuHDRAiJQ0E8 nPvOGBuK2kEgO0LqeMsHywxWSdfgo/k6weroM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=licIGDufJFXGHx3awC06hOmegTzMp6UFkyQg1Ssw+4s5OU5t6S8SRPf9jO3G1Aisc1 sDJYA3g9oGGRhxBd1cbgYss8486+WiIcanYqmYc0P1VuHavbhmfpubGMbYyDMJXwTwmU 7FAPd58MP4+nGw2W0Y8RG79K7bfL7PujpqSmI= Received: by 10.216.145.130 with SMTP id p2mr1604794wej.7.1284053625003; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 10:33:45 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.92.203 with SMTP id s11ls2552172wbm.1.p; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 10:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.69.76 with SMTP id y12mr427381wbi.26.1284053622853; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 10:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.69.76 with SMTP id y12mr427380wbi.26.1284053622825; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 10:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f44.google.com (mail-ww0-f44.google.com [74.125.82.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id a37si529543wba.7.2010.09.09.10.33.41; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 10:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lokanoda@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.44; Received: by wwb34 with SMTP id 34so202656wwb.25 for ; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 10:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.158.15 with SMTP id d15mr95830wbx.46.1284053621516; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 10:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.30.13] ([93.23.90.3]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w14sm1034990weq.33.2010.09.09.10.33.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 09 Sep 2010 10:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4C891A69.1070507@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 19:33:29 +0200 From: lokanoda@gmail.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Temper References: <4C88FE19.3010505@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: lokanoda@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lokanoda@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lokanoda@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's not really a third kind. This characteristic of "to bring to a=20 proper or suitable state, to modify some excessive quality, to restrain=20 within due limits," we find etymologically also in the word temperament: temperament early 15c., "proportioned mixture of elements," from L. temperamentum=20 "proper mixture," from temperare "to mix" (see temper=20 ). In medieval theory, it meant a=20 combination of qualities (hot, cold, moist, dry) that determined the=20 nature of an organism; this was extended to a combination of the four=20 humors (sanguine, choleric, phlegmatic, and melancholic) that made up a=20 person's characteristic disposition.It's about balancing opposites, or=20 extremes by mixing qualities. This is also reflected in the tempering of=20 metals: From the wiki: "In metallurgy, there is always a trade-off between=20 strength and ductility .=20 This delicate balance highlights many of the subtleties inherent to the=20 tempering process. Precise control of time and temperature during the=20 tempering process are critical to achieve a metal with well balanced=20 mechanical properties." Temperate is from the same root: 1. moderate or self-restrained; not extreme in opinion, statement, etc.:=20 a temperate response to an insulting challenge. 2. moderate as regards indulgence of appetite or passion, esp. in the=20 use of alcoholic liquors. 3. not excessive in degree, as things, qualities, etc. "Mligau".. thanks, ok, how would I say "a thoroughly tempered person" then? loka ps. yes lokanoda is meant to resemble lojban. I think it's not=20 grammatical though. I think what I wanted to express is best translated=20 as "lo ka du no da". Or how would you translate "nothingness"? (as in=20 "the quality of being nothing") Luke Bergen wrote: > I'm a little confused by what you mean by "temper". My first thoughts=20 > when I hear the word are: 1) the personality trait. and 2) what one=20 > does to metals. I've never heard of this third kind of "to temper"=20 > and I don't see anything like it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temper > > Also, I like your name. Was it intentionally lojbanic? > > 2010/9/9 Jorge Llamb=EDas > > > On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 12:32 PM, > wrote: > > Anyone know a translation for "to temper"? > > In the meaning: "to bring to a proper or suitable state, to > modify some > > excessive quality, > > to restrain within due limits," > > from L. temperare "to mix correctly, moderate, regulate, blend," > > to a "proportioned mixture of elements," > > > > What comes to mind? > > Merci for your thoughts. > > My first thought is "mligau" ("milxe zei gasnu"). > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to > lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20 > Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at=20 > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.