From lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBCe-KjkBBoEZGDjrg@googlegroups.com Fri Sep 10 07:10:18 2010 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ou4Im-00015y-Je; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:10:17 -0700 Received: by fxm17 with SMTP id 17sf381279fxm.16 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:09:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=KmtcHE8yJs4bheBHjP6qGv6os2HdJaiwGEtcsZl/BiY=; b=Em0ExNFtbJ6EJYFYPAj57Dgfh6Z97mt4z/+92IogwvOXYSld1TW6SSGcjT46H8CP8n 14iUSj3/cuzOyhBl2Y37c/pE69MgOTu8KsxWMulGIO8YGQMAw8p0sdwTJYE5rIV8+YbQ h7YnvWVhJbrngV3eWLwqql2nhF8+hhLN92V8Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=sFuwgAKIyhsuveOAkXO7ssQuIOaZzflNYrWT/vGPEZi8Cz50MfJ5WEzHA8TqnxNVMe vfcfo7D/C6FOX9brTcr47tuvZtXC1t3WZ+xJO83B7quCjiJ/AvUlelbyw+Feh5Yi9Po1 orafFnjioWhlZ0ZThmp5IgoGxGIHkCiwTW0bU= Received: by 10.223.77.27 with SMTP id e27mr15369fak.4.1284127774677; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:09:34 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.137.193 with SMTP id x1ls3293552bkt.0.p; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.80.4 with SMTP id r4mr32078bkk.2.1284127773395; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.80.4 with SMTP id r4mr32077bkk.2.1284127773361; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f42.google.com (mail-fx0-f42.google.com [209.85.161.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id z25si1377979bku.1.2010.09.10.07.09.32; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:09:32 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.42; Received: by mail-fx0-f42.google.com with SMTP id 14so1936362fxm.15 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:09:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.79.199 with SMTP id q7mr607624bkk.76.1284127763774; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.98.71 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:09:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4C88FE19.3010505@gmail.com> <4C891A69.1070507@gmail.com> <4C89F785.4060902@gmail.com> <4C89FDDE.8050508@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:09:23 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] lo la me no da From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dd990534be8b048fe84bf2 --0016e6dd990534be8b048fe84bf2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 {du} has always kind of confused me. How does it function? Is it a selbri? Does it behave like a relative clause? A kind of abstractor? Is it it's own grammatical construct? On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 6:09 AM, Ross Ogilvie wrote: > The reason that no {du} or {me} is needed is because { mei } 'grabs' a hold > of { no } and together forms a selbri with the definition > nomei: x1 is the mass formed from set x2 whose zero members are x3 > or in other words > x1 is the mass formed from the set with no members > ie > x1 is the mass of nothing > > (Mass is being used here in a lojban technical way. If you haven't > encountered it in a lojban context, a mass is basically a group of things) > > In the previous examples, du was the selbri or me was used to turn a sumti > into the selbri. But since nomei is already a selbri, these other words are > not needed. > > mu'o mi'e .ros. > > > On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 7:43 PM, wrote: > >> >> "lo ka du no da" works. Also "lo ka me no da", or "lo ka no mei". >>> >> In this last example, why does there not have to be anything in between >> "lo ka" and "no mei", >> as there is a "du" and "me" with the others? >> >> thx >> la ka du no da (is this correct for saying "the one named 'nothingness' >> "?) >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0016e6dd990534be8b048fe84bf2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable {du} has always kind of confused me. =A0How does it function? =A0Is it a se= lbri? =A0Does it behave like a relative clause? A kind of abstractor? Is it= it's own grammatical construct? =A0

= On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 6:09 AM, Ross Ogilvie <oges007@gmail.com> wrote:
The reason that no {du} or {me} is needed is because { mei } 'grabs'= ; a hold of { no } and together forms a selbri with the definition
nomei: x1 is the mass formed from set x2 whose zero members are x3
or in= other words
x1 is the mass formed from the set with no members
iex1 is the mass of nothing

(Mass is being used here in a lojban technical way. If you haven't=20 encountered it in a lojban context, a mass is basically a group of=20 things)

In the previous examples, du was the selbri or me was used t= o turn a sumti into the selbri. But since nomei is already a selbri, these = other words are not needed.

mu'o mi'e .ros.


On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 7:43 PM, <lokanoda@gmail.com> wrot= e:

"lo ka du no da" works. Also "lo ka me no da", or "= ;lo ka no mei".
In this last example, why does there not have to be anything in between &qu= ot;lo ka" and "no mei",
as there is a "du" and "me" with the others?

thx
la ka du no da (is this correct for saying "the one named 'nothing= ness' "?)


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