From lojban-beginners+bncCOib25n_BhCvqJnlBBoECv8cwA@googlegroups.com Fri Oct 01 14:36:14 2010 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P1nH1-0005x0-9O; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:36:14 -0700 Received: by qwf6 with SMTP id 6sf775808qwf.16 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:36:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=WRWc2nUPWu5xGNOkCv42fXG8DaB3/Zcf/M2S4dYBTEQ=; b=xlZ2cm1u1KgTSHo6WiRWjHZQBLvq4HxBNtiZGj+2lBIiowMSCuuCCjsdn27cIcQ5/+ I6nfNcxr/Ldh8khHdJgjtJ2YC41iIW9TpLoacgBofoC5sFWWiWcU/YKv51c/U8QyzFSK OvK2d3NTh53LC0Phryal8kel/0JMJyT9JGvUA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=CACDxBIafFrxuV7r1+HPcVq96y5IfzuXq2ObKxdg6ycCm/Wh9HrFN45GtV9xSCV2dD DZ4y8JWyVFBU7W3C+myJl+1rRu4gkN9wXgTpEVrER7yyscNw1OuSjC2jeAFRNaUpaeYw 88feR+JeOVg1AEmu4QLO+Dx66jYLTF9MMTitU= Received: by 10.229.43.219 with SMTP id x27mr415370qce.46.1285968943939; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:35:43 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.96.204 with SMTP id i12ls818020qan.6.p; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.3.21 with SMTP id 21mr1247061qal.6.1285968942546; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.3.21 with SMTP id 21mr1247060qal.6.1285968942502; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f170.google.com (mail-qy0-f170.google.com [209.85.216.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id y27si904724qce.6.2010.10.01.14.35.41; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.170; Received: by mail-qy0-f170.google.com with SMTP id 35so924457qyk.15 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:35:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.46.15 with SMTP id h15mr4174528qaf.389.1285968940346; Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.79.81 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:35:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <689A8C08-145B-410E-AEBD-90D8EFD8B347@switchb.org> References: <671C9B4A-4E53-4F59-8B06-22E74A4A7AC7@switchb.org> <9A313EBC-E0FD-40BB-B083-F8B65E729883@switchb.org> <689A8C08-145B-410E-AEBD-90D8EFD8B347@switchb.org> Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 17:35:40 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] cusku/NU From: Alex Rozenshteyn To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151748db02e1af28049194f98a --00151748db02e1af28049194f98a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 (As this is not a point by point response, I'll respond at the top; sorry) I think my problem is understanding multiple places in abstractors. On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kevin Reid wrote: > Please place your replies below selective quotations rather than above the > entire message; it makes it easier for messages to keep the structure of the > discussion clear. [This is my opinion and not a list policy.] > > > On Oct 1, 2010, at 15:03, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: > > Because I thought {se du'u} was the wrong thing... >> >> Let me work through this: >> du'u : x1 is a predicate expressed by sentence x2 >> se du'u : x1 is a sentence expressing predicate x2 >> > > Yes, except: > > 1. bridi/statement/sentence, not predicate/selbri. "plana" is a > selbri (predicate); "do plana" is a bridi (sentence). > > 2. {du'u} relates three things, not two: x1, x2, and the syntactic > content of the {du'u} itself. > > Or, in lojbanic tautologies: > > lo du'u kei bridi > (the x1 of du'u is a bridi) > > lo du'u mi broda do kei bridi la'e zo broda mi ce'o do > ("mi broda do" is a bridi with selbri "broda" and sumti "mi", "do") > > da du'u kei de .ijanai da smuni de > (the x2 of a du'u means the x1 of it) > > > -- > Kevin Reid > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > -- Alex R -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --00151748db02e1af28049194f98a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (As this is not a point by point response, I'll respond at the top; sor= ry)

I think my problem is understanding multiple places in abstracto= rs.

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kevin= Reid <kpreid@sw= itchb.org> wrote:
Please place your= replies below selective quotations rather than above the entire message; i= t makes it easier for messages to keep the structure of the discussion clea= r. [This is my opinion and not a list policy.]


On Oct 1, 2010, at 15:03, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote:

Because I thought {se du'u} was the wrong thing...

Let me work through this:
du'u : x1 is a predicate expressed by sentence x2
se du'u : x1 is a sentence expressing predicate x2

Yes, except:

=A01. bridi/statement/sentence, not predicate/selbri. "plana" is= a
=A0 =A0 selbri (predicate); "do plana" is a bridi (sentence).
=A02. {du'u} relates three things, not two: x1, x2, and the syntactic<= br> =A0 =A0 content of the {du'u} itself.

Or, in lojbanic tautologies:

=A0lo du'u <anything> kei bridi
=A0(the x1 of du'u is a bridi)

=A0lo du'u mi broda do kei bridi la'e zo broda mi ce'o do
=A0("mi broda do" is a bridi with selbri "broda" and s= umti "mi", "do")

=A0da du'u <anything> kei de .ijanai da smuni de
=A0(the x2 of a du'u means the x1 of it)


--
Kevin Reid =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0<http://swit= chb.org/kpreid/>

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=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

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