From lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBCWk7flBBoERwBzpw@googlegroups.com Thu Oct 07 06:23:01 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P3qQx-00076o-8v; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 06:23:01 -0700 Received: by gya1 with SMTP id 1sf870410gya.16 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 06:22:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=b6pBs7gO6PS/ot/mnR9cAVS6Vqun79lzUkaDxwq+DrE=; b=ZbFvPJeHrsUWPWc4NjZhTOupAKBj4ouhkh6dh+hmU0dq7lkL1iUVV2vtomDCYrBUHc I3RsZAGv8+tAWrEYtspZbYq6VD1siU5G3o402P/TXfklL/N9HIfaGKhk/keR86wajFjH jKoQewMtE1YM9a247xCT3D2pmELTiFaNXusBU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=dl0MHn65DWz0j/O5g66VVJ7YG35uPJMSRLMYMRxyjrOS8cfdeBSCA2u/12p/EUjBHX pBtqMubbQfbBcmWSrtYImf8tRqq6PbKmwjXFUR5rG+P77a5ihr0N1JFMJgJvWncAYCFo 5OSuZ2zX2bMJFH75/l8iTQQORnOwRmpahaoP8= Received: by 10.91.16.18 with SMTP id t18mr66096agi.36.1286457750686; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 06:22:30 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.180.73 with SMTP id bt9ls3487ibb.0.p; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 06:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.36.73 with SMTP id s9mr188227ibd.14.1286457748853; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 06:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.36.73 with SMTP id s9mr188226ibd.14.1286457748782; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 06:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f170.google.com (mail-iw0-f170.google.com [209.85.214.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id b32si980791ibq.5.2010.10.07.06.22.27; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 06:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.170; Received: by mail-iw0-f170.google.com with SMTP id 41so1832873iwn.1 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 06:22:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.191.74 with SMTP id dl10mr819142ibb.157.1286457747489; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 06:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.48.79 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Oct 2010 06:22:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201010061703.14894.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 09:22:27 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: A suggestion for the Lojban names of weekdays and months. From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367d62980ed033049206c9f6 --0016367d62980ed033049206c9f6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > But "detri" doesn't do the job we want. Do you really expect > "relseldetri" to be understood as "Tueday"? Try saying "we meet every > Tuesday" using "detri". Even that doesn't work. the days/weeks/months/years of detri are all in th= e x1 (comma separated?!) so you would need to get at those with some kind of pi'e construct or something. A seldetri is an event that takes place on [some] date. It's unfortunate that detri wasn't defined better (with a sumti slot for days, months, years, etc...). 2010/10/7 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 4:32 AM, Lindar wrote: > > > > detri > > > > x1 is the date [day,week,month,year] of event/state x2, at location > > x3, by calendar x4. > > > > .i li pa lo'o detri (lo cabdei) > > > > "Today is the first." > > Yes, the first of the month. > > > .i li pa pi'e ci pi'e re pi'e re no pa no lo'o detri lo cabdei mi lo > > *gregorian* > > > > Today is the first day of the third week (the 15th?) of the second > > month (February?) of the year 2010 (in base dau) at my location in the > > gregorian calendar. > > I don't think that's how "week" was intended in detri. I think it was > meant as week of the year, not week of the month. In fact week number > (be it of the month or of the year) is not well defined because of the > ambiguity in when the week starts. If it's Monday the second of > January, is that the first week or the second week of the month/year? > > > You -don't- need two whole > > new gismu for this when we have -one- perfectly good word that does > > the job exactly how you want. > > But "detri" doesn't do the job we want. Do you really expect > "relseldetri" to be understood as "Tueday"? Try saying "we meet every > Tuesday" using "detri". > > > If you want to discuss what exactly is > > permitted in the x1 of detri (should it be "day | month | year" or > > "day of week | week | month | quarter | year | additional division | > > another big measurement | bollocks" or ... whatever!), then that's > > totally cool, > > Last time this was discussed, the most support seemed to be for the > year;month;day order, but this is one of those recurring topics, so > who knows what will happen this time. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --0016367d62980ed033049206c9f6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > But "detri" doesn't do the job we w= ant. Do you really expect
> "relseldetri" to be understood as "Tueday"? Try sa= ying "we meet every
> Tuesday" using "detri".

Even that doesn't work. =A0the days/weeks/months= /years of detri are all in the x1 (comma separated?!) so you would need to = get at those with some kind of pi'e construct or something. =A0A seldet= ri is an event that takes place on [some] date. =A0It's unfortunate tha= t detri wasn't defined better (with a sumti slot for days, months, year= s, etc...). =A0

2010/10/7 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com&= gt;
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 4:32 AM, Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> detri
>
> x1 is the date [day,week,month,year] of event/state x2, at location > x3, by calendar x4.
>
> .i li pa lo'o detri (lo cabdei)
>
> "Today is the first."

Yes, the first of the month.

> .i li pa pi'e ci pi'e re pi'e re no pa no lo'o detri l= o cabdei mi lo
> *gregorian*
>
> Today is the first day of the third week (the 15th?) of the second
> month (February?) of the year 2010 (in base dau) at my location in the=
> gregorian calendar.

I don't think that's how "week" was intended in det= ri. I think it was
meant as week of the year, not week of the month. In fact week number
(be it of the month or of the year) is not well defined because of the
ambiguity in when the week starts. If it's Monday the second of
January, is that the first week or the second week of the month/year?

> =A0You -don't- need two whole
> new gismu for this when we have -one- perfectly good word that does > the job exactly how you want.

But "detri" doesn't do the job we want. Do you really e= xpect
"relseldetri" to be understood as "Tueday"? Try saying = "we meet every
Tuesday" using "detri".

> If you want to discuss what exactly is
> permitted in the x1 of detri (should it be "day | month | year&qu= ot; or
> "day of week | week | month | quarter | year | additional divisio= n |
> another big measurement | bollocks" or ... whatever!), then that&= #39;s
> totally cool,

Last time this was discussed, the most support seemed to be for the year;month;day order, but this is one of those recurring topics, so
who knows what will happen this time.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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--
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