From lojban-beginners+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCz483lBBoECcwnsA@googlegroups.com Mon Oct 11 13:21:44 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P5OsI-00029K-1H; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 13:21:44 -0700 Received: by wwe15 with SMTP id 15sf880479wwe.16 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 13:21:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+qV617QNA64entW346gSXS1hxzI0ae4a3Qvt6TZLHbY=; b=fd5GFfbtvxckpIALrMGXKM/kJHHFRW1YimiP0uhzc5Bhw+iGjlhLTYddC3KRqTyCCn r73YQiRbgYcXOgPGxAC/rxkY/F/o55j8rMiXfFmUPkMoFlj/mdnQ0HJtnBFJ8YiMya4l sTTumrmZ44g1z1yQFJSS8CcX57u8sNhS81zuU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=ODne/hQBwrPqbfGKfVEHRPZy8n+F3TmnP+Mmbjr27XGhNafTyh9RZr+e1wE9vi7+dz Rb48t5bsh7EvmUMAtUzg7qWJmE0S2104MKiybfXcwD2iBeFBWEWq8P6jwSITS23SyBig 6DVfMqQYNe8aZsUOOPQQ2kJ4Ta8IFn8ov0PAc= Received: by 10.216.145.167 with SMTP id p39mr1030124wej.25.1286828467830; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 13:21:07 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.39.10 with SMTP id d10ls1221222wbe.2.p; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 13:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.137.80 with SMTP id v16mr285342wbt.20.1286828466859; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 13:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.137.80 with SMTP id v16mr285341wbt.20.1286828466834; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 13:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f175.google.com (mail-wy0-f175.google.com [74.125.82.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id k1si2616361wbc.4.2010.10.11.13.21.05; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 13:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.175; Received: by wyf23 with SMTP id 23so4002388wyf.34 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 13:21:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.137.15 with SMTP id u15mr6135485wbt.129.1286828465642; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 13:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.145.130 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Oct 2010 13:21:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201010111254.04638.jezuch@interia.pl> <201010112013.18979.jezuch@interia.pl> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 17:21:05 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] "Towards the end of..." From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > I'm having a little trouble understanding these tenses. =A0Probably becau= se of > my english. =A0If I see {mi citka ba lo nu mi xagji} I see how {ba} is sa= ying > that the {citka} happens "after" the event of me being hungry. =A0So {ba} > relates two things the selbri and the thing that comes after the {ba}. More precisely "mi citka ba lo nu mi xagji" is just an expanded version of "mi ba citka". In both cases you are saying that the eating happens after. But after what? Well, unless you specify, or context says otherwise, it's after the present. But you can always use a different reference point, like "lo nu mi xagji". > =A0But > how does that work with something like an event contour like {mo'u}? In my understanding, it's just the same. Instead of saying that the eating happens later, you are now saying that it gets completed. But later than what? Completed when? You can add that specification with a sumti if you want to. > =A0There's only one thing in the relationship of {mo'u} and it's the thin= g > that is at its natural ending point. =A0Is it possible for X to be at it'= s > natural ending point in relation to Y? =A0And what would that mean anyway= ? > =A0How does Y come into play with regard to the main selbri? Y would be the point at which X is completed. > I think whatever it is, I would agree with you xorxes. =A0A tag effects t= he > main selbri, not the thing after the tag. =A0{mi citka mo'u lo nu mi xagj= i} is > saying that I am at the natural ending point of eating > the event of me being hungry. The obvious relationship being simultaneity (for "fe'e mo'u" the obvious relationship would be spatial coincidence). mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.