From lojban-beginners+bncCJ2UzZHuDRC32YvmBBoEMleCnA@googlegroups.com Sat Oct 23 07:10:29 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P9end-0007oS-UX; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:10:29 -0700 Received: by wwb34 with SMTP id 34sf1323747wwb.16 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:10:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ul052u3Q2DbEsltL7IwByF5iLGReGN3BGgF4/NR1lrA=; b=b4XnF4yQD+Kp3RDZlt6RckdOPEMREOwoi8tE7LXoS1t7NceMZPlS6JPoXOTUtfThrN t5iKsIKQ8nUezi5D43vBRq8kpt765dVIAT3f2IHOIP3P9gZJgEIU6oKravaImXnJzW4I zfmMn7vSYVcoMwdOX8YrmpNflQEPmCT+2WOKY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=aE0zYZafDGLoq2HNNYvn/lqhDR6Yy/8UxlbE3KNWkfAmQQm7Rj0XaWiPR6Tcf6R8X/ +tXpqp8GDGAvXtdH0nJzdXMvn3Z5eHUDBHztD7m2y2mXvDK7G6Bs/noGwM/v/EF5Rgvl sChCP4C9oh9TYdISORRunTMdmKMNmYUgffqXk= Received: by 10.216.236.90 with SMTP id v68mr631590weq.22.1287842999111; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:09:59 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.198.213 with SMTP id ep21ls1664254wbb.2.p; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.135.12 with SMTP id l12mr189973wbt.12.1287842998019; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.135.12 with SMTP id l12mr189972wbt.12.1287842997989; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f173.google.com (mail-wy0-f173.google.com [74.125.82.173]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id q27si1508551wbv.5.2010.10.23.07.09.56; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.173 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.173; Received: by wyj26 with SMTP id 26so2099037wyj.18 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:09:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.38.143 with SMTP id b15mr4179019wbe.167.1287842996720; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.32.140 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:09:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201010221925.40431.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:09:56 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] How to say something beyond my level From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.173 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Alex Rozenshteyn w= rote: > And now to see if I understand: > > ca - present; when used like this, it means that the bridi is occurring a= t > the same time as the sumti to the right of ca > lo - convert a selbri to a sumti > nu - event abstractor - nu .. kei is the event > ca'o - continuative; the selbri had already started and hadn't yet finish= ed > la meris - Mary > katna - x1 cuts x2 ... ; can be used to mean chop > lo mudri - wood [of some tree species] > > the entire {ca lo nu ... kei} becomes a time tag > la djan - John > co'a - marks krixa as starting > krixa - x1 screams/emits sound x2 > > did I get most of that? All correct. > also, it seems like it would be invalid to use krixa to scream informatio= n. > {mi krixa zoi .gy. Get out of bed! .gy.} is clearly wrong, I wouldn't say "clearly wrong". It's just that all that matters is that "zoi .gy. Get out of bed! .gy." is a sound. In any case, from the point of view of a Lojban speaker, "zoi .gy. Get out of bed! .gy." is indeed nothing but a sound (or a string of letters). Meaningwise it is no different from "zoi .gy. mumble mumble .gy.", unless they happen to understand English. > but what about > {mi krixa se du'u zoi .gy. Get out of bed! .gy.}?=A0 Also wrong, right? That has a couple of grammatical problems. After "se du'u" you need a full sentence, and "zoi .gy. Get out of bed! .gy." is only a sumti. Also you would normally use "lo se du'u ...", since "se du'u .... kei" is a selbri. "la'e zoi .gy. Get out of bed! .gy." is the meaning of "zoi .gy. Get out of bed! .gy.", (which will only be meaningful to English speakers, of course, not necessarily to any Lojban speaker), but as you point out you don't really krixa a meaning. You could say something like "mi ki'asku lu ko cliva lo ckana li'u". mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.