From lojban-beginners+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDL8YvmBBoEVmCblg@googlegroups.com Sat Oct 23 08:01:56 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P9fbV-0002x2-D9; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:01:56 -0700 Received: by wyb38 with SMTP id 38sf1433445wyb.16 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:01:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=coeTT5b6madR34Z0vb86ITDouCq8R7NA33tFW9X/93E=; b=2p3Y2VzK0dk/z7bqM/25gzyrV33wCP/FG4JKibC/vVAL1Yxx8TxAP62f9GbatA+3v6 S/Cst/XzLMoDoGpkVkAxzef3MmWu3H/FQzoXOx2DFO3sNOoxxv1HeQN6SQhtbmrkTKq+ 5FlQH7K3fy1FiKR4cdcJuJfaAUZVl1r/KCe0U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=1HNps02nSzFR3jzU/DZpHCvkiTGOWKJGjICGQjmriJSDI2sJvHaIEOhmDEQojkxvmj XjqHaPnz5jc+0pi0+SDA9BLUVb78ZnN2CHkF82mHigiQxnlDvflUGX0vOZ7CBO9B8aXw 3fcWoTdj0rBa0bknLW4F8Zwgy8VS1Z5Z8/yM8= Received: by 10.216.237.212 with SMTP id y62mr642085weq.17.1287846091718; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:01:31 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.198.213 with SMTP id ep21ls1673708wbb.2.p; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.135.12 with SMTP id l12mr192204wbt.12.1287846090637; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.135.12 with SMTP id l12mr192202wbt.12.1287846090614; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f50.google.com (mail-ww0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id q27si1525671wbv.1.2010.10.23.08.01.29; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.50; Received: by wwb24 with SMTP id 24so1842968wwb.31 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:01:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.137.80 with SMTP id v16mr4226089wbt.113.1287846089382; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.32.140 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 08:01:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201010221925.40431.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 12:01:29 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] How to say something beyond my level From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Stela Selckiku wrote= : > > I think Pierre was right about this, the x1 of katna is a tool that > chops, so it's not Mary that's cutting the wood... unless your axe is > named Mary! =A0That would be a good name for an axe. The gi'uste says "(tool/blade/force)", so presumably lo katna could be lo se balre/lo balre/lo bapli. Mary is not lo balre or lo se balre, but I don't see why she can be lo bapli. (This may open another can of worms about that strange "ka" in the definition of "bapli".) I would say: la meris cu katna lo mudri (se pi'o lo ka'amru) "Mary chops wood (with an axe)." Or: la meris cu pilno lo ka'amru lo nu katna lo mudri "Mary uses an axe to chop wood." Also possible is: la meris cu ka'argau lo ka'amru lo mudri "Mary makes the axe chop wood." The definition of "ka'amru" in jbovlaste is: "m1 is an axe for cutting k2 with blade m3 propelled by m4" It's clear that m2=3Dk2 here (lo se mruli =3D lo se katna) but it seems that "lo mruli", "lo te mruli" and "lo ve mruli" are all possible candidates for "lo katna" mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. 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