From lojban-beginners+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDqxozmBBoEpygjVw@googlegroups.com Sat Oct 23 11:03:48 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P9iRU-000417-2Q; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:03:48 -0700 Received: by wyb38 with SMTP id 38sf1506022wyb.16 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:03:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=+r6fkmQQ812dRUIbsuRiJcCzVED4XfkK6ePOz+y8S4U=; b=nwPBo5lr86MNJC5DQc59fgls/RiU2GpecDgX0B9U2vVXZBcHPEyho/4t15SkZGXyRN vRBH/qcwY7BYfRoKm5KUf0zlgGsvXU+p+v7taFTg25rXY6rKWUKWPrz7U87Ulh4Y6t+X FOxQQifhVS2ejP6RAc29wm+L+jJZ2X/FKGGC4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=dLi1yoKVEYpZCXlJ35xCBc1Po04qSdMu8sGCnp7lxQ/Syrp4Hce2rCuJfrxL4P6wFF HO0XmMe4dpNReEhb340xNsXxaDo5954m+wYbRZHuguzmpGSOEEKK7asPQYrp2B2tPDHm +aqrav9+S4sXw9Yh+by9uPw+LOW28ovoXHF4U= Received: by 10.216.23.16 with SMTP id u16mr111522weu.9.1287857002236; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:03:22 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.58.143 with SMTP id q15ls2096277wec.1.p; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:03:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.85.65 with SMTP id t43mr219153wee.0.1287857000497; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:03:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.85.65 with SMTP id t43mr219152wee.0.1287857000477; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:03:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f51.google.com (mail-ww0-f51.google.com [74.125.82.51]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l5si1446565weq.15.2010.10.23.11.03.19; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.51 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.51; Received: by mail-ww0-f51.google.com with SMTP id 18so1979193wwb.20 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:03:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.145.14 with SMTP id b14mr4574573wbv.24.1287856999237; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.32.140 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:03:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201010231340.08111.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <201010231340.08111.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 15:03:19 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] How to say something beyond my level From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.51 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 2:40 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > I think "force" here means "(nil)catke" or "(nil)danre" (nil, if you're > measuring it in newtons (or is lo nildanre in pascals?)), rather > than "bapli". "lo catke" and "lo danre" are two special cases of "lo bapli", aren't they? "lo lacpu" could also be a katna. > I'd say "la meris. katna lo mudri" if she karate-chopped it or > ran into it and it broke. Yes, those work too. "katna" is very general, it doesn't require intentionality on the part of x1, but neither does it exclude intentionality, and the x1 may be in direct contact with x2 or it may effect the cut through an instrument or a part. For the karate chopping you could also say "lo xance be la meris cu katna lo mudri", or "la meris cu katna lo mudri se pi'o lo xance". It depends on how much precision you want to add. Saying that Mary can't be a katna unless she uses her bare hands sounds to me like saying she can't ba a cadzu unless she is barefoot. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.