From lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhCSyq_lBBoEpqq1YA@googlegroups.com Tue Oct 05 19:55:42 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P3KAN-0000H2-Ij; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:55:42 -0700 Received: by yxs7 with SMTP id 7sf5230009yxs.16 for ; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:55:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=XZ035r+w0wDN1D4krI10Jc2qCMILcTkTxKOXSHPDs0U=; b=Nid5yvJGCsx77fj0Di4GcXUXL5QbIu29wvqxKpBW2kk0ZOyr6BHZO+o1SdCdtvMKTb QmlBOhj4Vmx2rLsh8AAquz9Mhr7YWkkf1gVGQPot/e0pj9IuBSvEX7QGdbIioavx+EGy s4WJ+vPNTCxkuebxokrHqkacm4B5MDLNvmto4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=dyKIRwj8eA5wOsSDYZxmcKHlvG8OqeFHdqoL78H44KTUw+QQAfQRT0zpP3J0kWMiTl qa4kx5EklcW+8Ysf1wci1VndBMeTHhfBA8vmkjKoLJ5CrrNe4p9zctBb7IM9emCo4aRE jMPBDduBnFDk5qaEx+hdpPbR1z/YSakQOiQUs= Received: by 10.91.10.24 with SMTP id n24mr838961agi.30.1286333714246; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:55:14 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.123.203 with SMTP id q11ls3485538ibr.2.p; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.191.68 with SMTP id dl4mr3668407ibb.18.1286333696533; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.191.68 with SMTP id dl4mr3668360ibb.18.1286333680845; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f175.google.com (mail-iw0-f175.google.com [209.85.214.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id cm31si186653ibb.3.2010.10.05.19.54.39; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.175; Received: by mail-iw0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 2so9592632iwn.20 for ; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:54:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.174.84 with SMTP id s20mr13148132ibz.94.1286333679593; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.206.16 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Oct 2010 19:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 20:54:39 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban-beginners] A suggestion for the Lojban names of weekdays and months. From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com, lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364ece5608e8920491e9e6b9 --0016364ece5608e8920491e9e6b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 (I'm double-posting this to both lojban lists, please respond on the beginner's.) ----- Days: ----- A discussion about the names of the weekdays was recently held in the thread "[lojban] la za'e filjvocedra (The Age of Easy Lujvo)", about the pros and cons of the two current methods of naming the days of the week - one based on numbers, the other on concepts. {pavdei} "1-day" = {lurdei} "moon-day", to provide an example. In this discussion, .xorxes. pointed out that the current number method is anti-intuitive, because it seems as though, for example {mumdei} would mean "five days", not "fifth day". As corollary, he pointed out two examples: {reljeftu}, "fortnight", and {mumymentu}, "five minutes". To quote him, "[T]he place structure of {djedi} screams for 'N-dei' to mean {djedi be li N}, not {djedi me'e li N}." Personally, I found this to be a very convincing argument against the use of {pavdei} et al. as names of weekdays. It is also, if I am correct, his main reason for preferring the concept way. I, on the other hand, do not like the concept method, for the simple reason that I really, really like having a systematic method, and that is anything but. After more discussion, I came up with the following, which is agreeable to both .xorxes. and me. It's actually basically the exact same thing as {pavdei}, etc., except backwards. So, they would be: {djeno} "0-day"/{djeze} "7-day" = Sunday {djepa} "1-day" = Monday {djere} "2-day" = Tuesday {djeci} "3-day" = Wednesday {djevo} "4-day" = Thursday {djemu} "5-day" = Friday {djexa} "6-day" = Saturday All eight of the above words have the exact same meaning as both current methods: "x1 is a [weekday name] of week x2 in month x3" The benefits of this method are that it is logical, systematic, and doesn't conflict with spans (as in {mumdei} = "a five day span"). The con is, obviously, they take up 8 spots in gismu space, which may or may not be an atrocity, depending on your viewpoint. ----- Months: ----- Through further discussion, we have also come up with a really good method for month-naming. Currently, the only Lojban words we have for the months are cmevla, i.e. {.pamast.}, {.remast.}, etc. .xorxes. came up with a really good alternative, similar to my idea with the weeks, for each of the months, which are the following fu'ivla, based around {lunra}: {lunrapa} "1-month" = January {lunrare} "2-month" = February {lunraci} "3-month" = March {lunravo} "4-month" = April {lunramu} "5-month" = May {lunraxa} "6-month" = June {lunraze} "7-month" = July {lunrabi} "8-month" = August {lunraso} "9-month" = September {lunradau} "10-month" = October {lunrafei} "11-month" = November {lunragai} "12-month" = December This has the advantage over the current cmevla method in that, being fu'ivla, we can give them place structure and use them in all the ways cmene can NOT be used. I don't see any cons at all, but I may be mistaken. Since it is .xorxes. idea, I direct you to him for the proposed definitions, although I'm certain that it will begin "x1 is month N ...." ----- In conclusion, it is my desire to inform the whole of jbogugde about these ideas and to get feedback , and to possibly confuse you lot to start using them whenever you are talking about days of the week or about months. Feedback, suggestions, criticisms, praise, and flaming are all welcome and appreciated. :D (I'm double-posting this to both lojban lists, please respond on the beginner's.) -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0016364ece5608e8920491e9e6b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (I'm double-posting this to both lojban lists, please respond on the be= ginner's.)
-----
Days:
-----

A discussion about the nam= es of the weekdays was recently held in the thread "[lojban] la za'= ;e filjvocedra (The Age of Easy Lujvo)", about the pros and cons of th= e two current methods of naming the days of the week - one based on numbers= , the other on concepts. {pavdei} "1-day" =3D {lurdei} "moon= -day", to provide an example.

In this discussion, .xorxes. pointed out that the current number method= is anti-intuitive, because it seems as though, for example {mumdei} would = mean "five days", not "fifth day". As corollary, he poi= nted out two examples: {reljeftu}, "fortnight", and {mumymentu}, = "five minutes". To quote him, "[T]he place structure of {dje= di} screams for 'N-dei' to mean {djedi be li N}, not {djedi me'= e li N}."

Personally, I found this to be a very convincing argument against the u= se of {pavdei} et al. as names of weekdays. It is also, if I am correct, hi= s main reason for preferring the concept way.

I, on the other hand, = do not like the concept method, for the simple reason that I really, really= like having a systematic method, and that is anything but. After more disc= ussion, I came up with the following, which is agreeable to both .xorxes. a= nd me.

It's actually basically the exact same thing as {pavdei}, etc., exc= ept backwards. So, they would be:

{djeno} "0-day"/{djeze} = "7-day" =3D Sunday
{djepa} "1-day" =3D Monday
{dj= ere} "2-day" =3D Tuesday
{djeci} "3-day" =3D Wednesday
{djevo} "4-day" =3D Th= ursday
{djemu} "5-day" =3D Friday
{djexa} "6-day"= =3D Saturday

All eight of the above words have the exact same meani= ng as both current methods: "x1 is a [weekday name] of week x2 in mont= h x3"

The benefits of this method are that it is logical, systematic, and doe= sn't conflict with spans (as in {mumdei} =3D "a five day span"= ;).

The con is, obviously, they take up 8 spots in gismu space, whic= h may or may not be an atrocity, depending on your viewpoint.

-----
Months:
-----

Through further discussion, we have al= so come up with a really good method for month-naming. Currently, the only = Lojban words we have for the months are cmevla, i.e. {.pamast.}, {.remast.}= , etc. .xorxes. came up with a really good alternative, similar to my idea = with the weeks, for each of the months, which are the following fu'ivla= , based around {lunra}:

{lunrapa} "1-month" =3D January
{lunrare} "2-month&qu= ot; =3D February
{lunraci} "3-month" =3D March
{lunravo} &q= uot;4-month" =3D April
{lunramu} "5-month" =3D May
{lu= nraxa} "6-month" =3D June
{lunraze} "7-month" =3D July
{lunrabi} "8-month" = =3D August
{lunraso} "9-month" =3D September
{lunradau} &q= uot;10-month" =3D October
{lunrafei} "11-month" =3D Novem= ber
{lunragai} "12-month" =3D December

This has the advantage over the current cmevla method in that, being fu= 'ivla, we can give them place structure and use them in all the ways cm= ene can NOT be used. I don't see any cons at all, but I may be mistaken= .

Since it is .xorxes. idea, I direct you to him for the proposed definit= ions, although I'm certain that it will begin "x1 is month N ....&= quot;

-----

In conclusion, it is my desire to inform the whol= e of jbogugde about these ideas and to get feedback , and to possibly confu= se you lot to start using them whenever you are talking about days of the w= eek or about months.

Feedback, suggestions, criticisms, praise, and flaming are all welcome = and appreciated. :D

(I'm double-posting this to both lojban list= s, please respond on the beginner's.)

--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk= . mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D= )

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