From lojban-beginners+bncCObmruz5AxCqrrLlBBoEz3DGZw@googlegroups.com Wed Oct 06 08:35:41 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P3W1k-00031i-Or; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 08:35:37 -0700 Received: by gya1 with SMTP id 1sf5904454gya.16 for ; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 08:35:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received :mime-version:received:received:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jecA3GriqrONUrHQl5FCuuutdwIDPvGrxlQ+VT1Wz7E=; b=lkvieK6azIOYt7PXCknqEQ5HKu6Uhdz2JkHS7gczW6wkca3u6QM6B+Y8tnzf+jy7Kd juOK1nK3zp1BpvB//zAZkhWf5EUptAwjpY5fQFzFDlFwC1ctzWZJpSVTWx63CCA7RBeN tM1aioSm7XGyqoCdlKMJXhwVj7Rr8XY9qHhRo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=F9+NQDTzPI0LyQ1NhEF2hntfzcpm6TNoTnqaCeucleIsai3SCgFfmTo13WtgmF7FtF olynw3Ic1H3xmjrSMiYdRafse/w3WrLgxChQJnVT5gNUBXXk56AU8A9/L6VVL71AdAKh 4b2G/Ve/SU4P3EKqB++6xonHFpGkUP3fDV5ns= Received: by 10.150.162.4 with SMTP id k4mr172380ybe.33.1286379306312; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 08:35:06 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.158.14 with SMTP id g14ls614859ybe.7.p; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 08:35:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.143.13 with SMTP id q13mr286092ybd.13.1286379305813; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 08:35:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.115.81.14 with SMTP id i14mr947656wal.25.1286342467089; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 22:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by i4g2000prf.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Tue, 5 Oct 2010 22:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 22:21:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 24.6.240.210 References: User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/7.0.517.24 Safari/534.7,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: <9e775061-67d4-4d8d-b218-b24cec7124ea@i4g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: A suggestion for the Lojban names of weekdays and months. From: Amber Shadow To: Lojban Beginners X-Original-Sender: ambersshadows@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am extremely for this idea. I'm a system freak, and think that this way will fit lojban much better than the concept (japanese, chinese) way, as well as being easy to remember and learn. I personally like how it sounds ending in a vowel myself, but that's just my opinion. I also think it's brilliant to use {lunra} for the months. Because, well, it makes sense. You say {djepa} and you know oh, it's {day-1}. You say {lunrapa} and you know oh, it's {moon-[cycle]-1}. It just makes sense. To me at least. In short, I like it! Do it! On Oct 5, 8:36=A0pm, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Luke Bergen wrote= : > > I like it. =A0My only comment is, what's wrong with cmevla? =A0Why not = make > > them .djepav. etc... =A0Given xorxes' other proposal about merging cmev= la into > > brivla, this wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing (assuming that I under= stand > > his other proposal well enough) and it wouldn't be infringing on the gi= smu > > space (not that I'm all that uncomfortable with that). > > No reason other than it depends on .xorxes. proposal being approved. > Actually, I'm ambivalent about {.djepav.} et al. over {djepa} et al.; as = far > as I'm concerned they're equivalent, especially in consideration of .xorx= es. > proposal to merge cmevla with brivla. But, unless and until .xorxes. merg= er > proposal is accepted, cmevla can't have definitions like "{.djepav.} =3D = 'x1 > is a Monday of week x2 in month x3'", because as it stands, all cmevla ha= ve > the same meaning, excepting the tiny detail of what the name is. > > However, I don't think using {.djepav.} instead is really all that great = a > benefit, because if we use it, and then for some reason decide to create = a > meaning for {djepa}, and it doesn't have anything to do with {.djepav.}, = I'm > certain massive confusions will arise from it. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 10:54 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote= : > > >> (I'm double-posting this to both lojban lists, please respond on the > >> beginner's.) > >> ----- > >> Days: > >> ----- > > >> A discussion about the names of the weekdays was recently held in the > >> thread "[lojban] la za'e filjvocedra (The Age of Easy Lujvo)", about t= he > >> pros and cons of the two current methods of naming the days of the wee= k - > >> one based on numbers, the other on concepts. {pavdei} "1-day" =3D {lur= dei} > >> "moon-day", to provide an example. > > >> In this discussion, .xorxes. pointed out that the current number metho= d is > >> anti-intuitive, because it seems as though, for example {mumdei} would= mean > >> "five days", not "fifth day". As corollary, he pointed out two example= s: > >> {reljeftu}, "fortnight", and {mumymentu}, "five minutes". To quote him= , > >> "[T]he place structure of {djedi} screams for 'N-dei' to mean {djedi b= e li > >> N}, not {djedi me'e li N}." > > >> Personally, I found this to be a very convincing argument against the = use > >> of {pavdei} et al. as names of weekdays. It is also, if I am correct, = his > >> main reason for preferring the concept way. > > >> I, on the other hand, do not like the concept method, for the simple > >> reason that I really, really like having a systematic method, and that= is > >> anything but. After more discussion, I came up with the following, whi= ch is > >> agreeable to both .xorxes. and me. > > >> It's actually basically the exact same thing as {pavdei}, etc., except > >> backwards. So, they would be: > > >> {djeno} "0-day"/{djeze} "7-day" =3D Sunday > >> {djepa} "1-day" =3D Monday > >> {djere} "2-day" =3D Tuesday > >> {djeci} "3-day" =3D Wednesday > >> {djevo} "4-day" =3D Thursday > >> {djemu} "5-day" =3D Friday > >> {djexa} "6-day" =3D Saturday > > >> All eight of the above words have the exact same meaning as both curre= nt > >> methods: "x1 is a [weekday name] of week x2 in month x3" > > >> The benefits of this method are that it is logical, systematic, and > >> doesn't conflict with spans (as in {mumdei} =3D "a five day span"). > > >> The con is, obviously, they take up 8 spots in gismu space, which may = or > >> may not be an atrocity, depending on your viewpoint. > > >> ----- > >> Months: > >> ----- > > >> Through further discussion, we have also come up with a really good me= thod > >> for month-naming. Currently, the only Lojban words we have for the mon= ths > >> are cmevla, i.e. {.pamast.}, {.remast.}, etc. .xorxes. came up with a = really > >> good alternative, similar to my idea with the weeks, for each of the m= onths, > >> which are the following fu'ivla, based around {lunra}: > > >> {lunrapa} "1-month" =3D January > >> {lunrare} "2-month" =3D February > >> {lunraci} "3-month" =3D March > >> {lunravo} "4-month" =3D April > >> {lunramu} "5-month" =3D May > >> {lunraxa} "6-month" =3D June > >> {lunraze} "7-month" =3D July > >> {lunrabi} "8-month" =3D August > >> {lunraso} "9-month" =3D September > >> {lunradau} "10-month" =3D October > >> {lunrafei} "11-month" =3D November > >> {lunragai} "12-month" =3D December > > >> This has the advantage over the current cmevla method in that, being > >> fu'ivla, we can give them place structure and use them in all the ways= cmene > >> can NOT be used. I don't see any cons at all, but I may be mistaken. > > >> Since it is .xorxes. idea, I direct you to him for the proposed > >> definitions, although I'm certain that it will begin "x1 is month N ..= .." > > >> ----- > > >> In conclusion, it is my desire to inform the whole of jbogugde about t= hese > >> ideas and to get feedback , and to possibly confuse you lot to start u= sing > >> them whenever you are talking about days of the week or about months. > > >> Feedback, suggestions, criticisms, praise, and flaming are all welcome= and > >> appreciated. :D > > >> (I'm double-posting this to both lojban lists, please respond on the > >> beginner's.) > > >> -- > >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > >> .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi pa= tfu > >> do zo'o > >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > >> =A0-- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups > >> "Lojban Beginners" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com= . > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > >> . > >> For more options, visit this group at > >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > =A0-- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps > > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu= do > zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.