From lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBDe77LlBBoEVD6Ukg@googlegroups.com Wed Oct 06 10:55:08 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P3YCl-0002MF-UC; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:55:08 -0700 Received: by yxs7 with SMTP id 7sf6028902yxs.16 for ; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:54:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=YJ8aS20EQwKEiLJBm5Df/dhm4isJvsgj/llSgVDT9NE=; b=Lv8WXVnHCXpnn6EdLL9+0zNKBdJZIq68grzMS8FDmoYp+4qPgXBfGcttlYibRhVh4O yswH658D0HeogwfouaXLmUJpwHsDzWfxGS3K/hWRV/wFurQkmp2PMJkTn85Il6bol2M+ E/2LFDorwn8flXLXec0lSvIK8RuMyq0RoQNPg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=djF1QD/Vh4T6phpqLW3Y909qlS62lBVJYuaImIatsnc9OAh0T6UsJ+Mjx4NJjR+6/6 MDlkN6fop1gsOlOAfsh2ceRJiJexImO5Dl8pvCPbLSNL5XXpVswCoXhjrwnCaUFnKe8K nt3/3a1gZm2SpGcMVPrUODm/BJCaAXB4GN4BQ= Received: by 10.90.60.1 with SMTP id i1mr236443aga.52.1286387678582; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:54:38 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.55.74 with SMTP id t10ls3845682ibg.3.p; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.161.82 with SMTP id q18mr3212556ibx.11.1286387677785; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.161.82 with SMTP id q18mr3212555ibx.11.1286387677750; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f179.google.com (mail-iw0-f179.google.com [209.85.214.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id b32si325237ibq.1.2010.10.06.10.54.36; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.179; Received: by mail-iw0-f179.google.com with SMTP id 7so291909iwn.38 for ; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:54:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.35.11 with SMTP id n11mr6297462ibd.168.1286387676585; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.48.79 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Oct 2010 10:54:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <84c5d2b7-de8e-4789-83f3-f5aebb028d46@g21g2000prn.googlegroups.com> <20101006154504.GC24166@alice.local> <20101006174737.GG24166@alice.local> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 13:54:36 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: A suggestion for the Lojban names of weekdays and months. From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325576e3281a0f70491f67802 --000325576e3281a0f70491f67802 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Is color circular? I thought that as you go lower and lower on a spectrum you eventually just dip into wave-lengths that humans can't perceive. At what point does red get so red that it starts to become green? Sorry if this is a stupid question. I hated art class ;) On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 1:47 PM, .alyn.post. < > alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote: > >> What makes color superior to phonetic ('a', 'e', ...) progression? >> What makes color superior to texture (smooth => rough) progression? >> What makes color superior to temperature (cold => hot) progression? >> >> Or, in a single question, is color sufficiently arbitrary, or is it >> equally arbitrary to other sensation scales? I see your argument of >> color vs. numbers, but what is the argument for color vs. other >> sensory progression? >> >> -Alan >> > > > Ahhh... but that's the beauty of color, it's NOT a "progression". It is > a circle. So you don't have one culture saying "it should start on THIS > day", and another saying "it should start on THAT day"... > > That objection aside, I have no preference for ANY circular, culturally > unbiased system. It was just the first to be suggested, as opposed to > number, which have a beginning and end, just like your examples, and > "arbitrary" substance/diety naming. > > --gejyspa > > On Wed, Oct 06, 2010 at 01:26:51PM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote: > > Ok then, remove that one bullet point. I believe there are still 4 or > 5 > > other fine points (and one subjective one). If we're going to pick an > > arbitrary sequence for defining week-day names, why not color? Are > numbers > > more sequential than colors on a spectrum? And it avoids the confusion > of > > "5 day time interval" as opposed to "5th day".... and it isn't a > cmevla or > > take up gismu space. > > Was your suggestion mostly a joke gejyspa or was there any seriousness > to > > it? > > > > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Michael Turniansky > >> > <[1]mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Luke Bergen <[2] >> lukeabergen@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > > Personally, the more I think about it, the more I'm loving >> gejyspa's >> > skadei >> > > suggestion. > starting >> > with >> > > "additionally" and "also" etc... I've opted for bullets> >> > > >> > > It has the sequential nature that a rational logical system >> should >> > have. >> > > It's very flexible for different calendars to invent new day >> words >> > > without necessarily conflicting with other calendars by adding >> more >> > fine >> > > grained color words for more days to a week or more broad color >> words >> > for >> > > fewer days. >> > Umm no. Much as I'm proud that you like my suggestion, that will >> NOT >> > work, for the same reason as the original question of xorxes >> > (paraphrastically "Isn't it confusing for cultures who use the >> different >> > numbering schemes?"). If we all agree that today is xundei, then >> what is >> > 9 days from now? The 7-day weekers will say "peldei, while the >> 9-day >> > weekers will say "xundei". Standards are standard for a reason. My >> aim >> > was to establish a standard that doesn't conflict with already >> existing >> > cultural standards. And really, is there much variation in week >> length >> > around the world currently? It seems that except for the 25 million >> > Igbo's traditional 4 day week, we aren't stepping on many >> > currently-extant calendrical toes here. And also (I say, >> > tongue-in-cheekily), with the widespread availability of colored >> > printers, monitors and copiers, we can save room in dates by >> saying, for >> > example Oct 9, 2010 instead of "Wednesday, Oct 9, 2010" :-) >> > Really, is there anything wrong with universal standards? That's >> why we >> > have timezones, airport codes, radio frequency etc. etc. >> > --gejyspa >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to >> > [3]lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > [4]lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > [5]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> > "Lojban Beginners" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > >> > References >> > >> > Visible links >> > 1. mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com >> > 2. mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com >> > 3. mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >> > 4. mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> > 5. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en >> >> -- >> .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --000325576e3281a0f70491f67802 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is color circular? =A0I thought that as you go lower and lower on a spectru= m you eventually just dip into wave-lengths that humans can't perceive.= =A0At what point does red get so red that it starts to become green?
<= br>
Sorry if this is a stupid question. =A0I hated art class ;)
<= br>
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Michael Turni= ansky <mturni= ansky@gmail.com> wrote:


On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 1:47 PM= , .alyn.post. <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> = wrote:
What makes color superior to phonetic= ('a', 'e', ...) progression?
What makes color superior = to texture (smooth =3D> rough) progression?
What makes color superior to temperature (cold =3D> hot) progression?
Or, in a single question, is color sufficiently arbitrary, or is itequally arbitrary to other sensation scales? =A0I see your argument of
color vs. numbers, but what is the argument for color vs. other
sensory = progression?

-Alan
=A0
=A0
=A0 Ahhh... but that's the beauty of color, it's NOT a &= quot;progression".=A0 It is a circle.=A0 So you don't have one cul= ture saying "it should start on THIS day", and another saying &qu= ot;it should start on THAT day"...
=A0
=A0 That objection aside, I have no preference for ANY circular, cultu= rally unbiased system.=A0 It was just the first to be suggested, as opposed= to number, which have a beginning and end, just like your examples, and &q= uot;arbitrary" substance/diety naming.
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa

On Wed, Oct 06, 2010 at 01:26:51PM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote:
&g= t; =A0 =A0Ok then, remove that one bullet point. I believe there are still = 4 or 5
> =A0 =A0other fine points (and one subjective one). If we'= ;re going to pick an
> =A0 =A0arbitrary sequence for defining week-day names, why not color? = Are numbers
> =A0 =A0more sequential than colors on a spectrum? And i= t avoids the confusion of
> =A0 =A0"5 day time interval" as= opposed to "5th day".... and it isn't a cmevla or
> =A0 =A0take up gismu space.
> =A0 =A0Was your suggestion mostly = a joke gejyspa or was there any seriousness to
> =A0 =A0it?
>> =A0 =A0On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Michael Turniansky
> =A0 =A0<[1]mturniansky@gmail.com> wrot= e:
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Luke Bergen <[2]lukeabergen@gmail.com>
> =A0 =A0 =A0wrote:
> =A0 =A0 =A0> Personally, the more I = think about it, the more I'm loving gejyspa's
> =A0 =A0 =A0sk= adei
> =A0 =A0 =A0> suggestion. <after typing out a long paragr= aph with sentences starting
> =A0 =A0 =A0with
> =A0 =A0 =A0> "additionally" and &= quot;also" etc... I've opted for bullets>
> =A0 =A0 =A0&g= t;
> =A0 =A0 =A0> It has the sequential nature that a rational log= ical system should
> =A0 =A0 =A0have.
> =A0 =A0 =A0> It's very flexible for di= fferent calendars to invent new day words
> =A0 =A0 =A0> without n= ecessarily conflicting with other calendars by adding more
> =A0 =A0 = =A0fine
> =A0 =A0 =A0> grained color words for more days to a week= or more broad color words
> =A0 =A0 =A0for
> =A0 =A0 =A0> fewer days.
> =A0 =A0 =A0= Umm no. Much as I'm proud that you like my suggestion, that will NOT> =A0 =A0 =A0work, for the same reason as the original question of xorx= es
> =A0 =A0 =A0(paraphrastically "Isn't it confusing for cu= ltures who use the different
> =A0 =A0 =A0numbering schemes?"). If we all agree that today is xu= ndei, then what is
> =A0 =A0 =A09 days from now? The 7-day weekers wi= ll say "peldei, while the 9-day
> =A0 =A0 =A0weekers will say &q= uot;xundei". Standards are standard for a reason. My aim
> =A0 =A0 =A0was to establish a standard that doesn't conflict with = already existing
> =A0 =A0 =A0cultural standards. And really, is ther= e much variation in week length
> =A0 =A0 =A0around the world current= ly? It seems that except for the 25 million
> =A0 =A0 =A0Igbo's traditional 4 day week, we aren't stepping o= n many
> =A0 =A0 =A0currently-extant calendrical toes here. And also = (I say,
> =A0 =A0 =A0tongue-in-cheekily), with the widespread availab= ility of colored
> =A0 =A0 =A0printers, monitors and copiers, we can save room in dates b= y saying, for
> =A0 =A0 =A0example Oct 9, 2010 instead of "Wedne= sday, Oct 9, 2010" :-)
> =A0 =A0 =A0Really, is there anything wr= ong with universal standards? That's why we
> =A0 =A0 =A0have timezones, airport codes, radio frequency etc. etc.> =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0--
> =A0 =A0 = =A0You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
&g= t; =A0 =A0 =A0Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> =A0 =A0 =A0To post to this group, send email to
> = =A0 =A0 =A0[3]lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> =A0 =A0 =A0To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> =A0 =A0 =A0[4]lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com= .
> =A0 =A0 =A0For more options, visit this group at
> = =A0 =A0 =A0[5]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl= =3Den.
>
> =A0 =A0--
> =A0 =A0You received this message becaus= e you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> =A0 =A0"Lojban Begin= ners" group.
> =A0 =A0To post to this group, send email to lojban-be= ginners@googlegroups.com.
> =A0 =A0To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> =A0 =A0lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> =A0 =A0F= or more options, visit this group at
> =A0 =A0http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl= =3Den.
>
> References
>
> =A0 =A0Visible = links
> =A0 =A01. mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com
> =A0 =A02. mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com
> =A0 =A03. mailto:lojban-beginners@googl= egroups.com
> =A0 =A04. mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com
> =A0 =A05. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?h= l=3Den

--
.i ko djuno fi le do sevzi

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send emai= l to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.


--
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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
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