From lojban-beginners+bncCK7Yk5CUCxD32cjnBBoEK_Bp2Q@googlegroups.com Sun Nov 28 02:21:00 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PMeNM-0006Az-WF; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 02:21:00 -0800 Received: by vws1 with SMTP id 1sf1615925vws.16 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 02:20:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=hHcoNLwVXE73QKJOWyuKjS0dOWWnvRRBGiEr7A7lxFg=; b=qTAmEP5lP46JHwYaiwOY0ofiyK0NaG7tcDbK+FJxqrT4Q1j5WPz3oA92KV/Z0Dnem9 JhyAFwRmWm7fPI6m5zbrus0q382K35d1/Ou1DxgkcJr6KU5KT5jFx2+ZV23lobJnaMeR D/CtmdGMqiIVf7yTZfXhAFcKjSI6UgO1Yqesg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=G+QwaUj4Q7ogv3yiONwqx6WXZb5VOspfvelJ7AqnSLnOC20NbY/ICY/nNmblQEsZdG b8trEpOjsKy43ogeJuG5Nol3LrYIe21bsW3gLNp6b4ySHtGMNs2NVfJzwXAVz4vwZ9u/ 8rHznBQMytBBz2uKNjVvjEhQysFNrnkVIIQRU= Received: by 10.220.177.67 with SMTP id bh3mr136082vcb.47.1290939639179; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 02:20:39 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.77.158 with SMTP id g30ls404898vck.3.p; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 02:20:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.185.71 with SMTP id cn7mr1369516vcb.10.1290939638402; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 02:20:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.185.71 with SMTP id cn7mr1369515vcb.10.1290939638370; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 02:20:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qy0-f180.google.com (mail-qy0-f180.google.com [209.85.216.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id f24si169646vcm.9.2010.11.28.02.20.37; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 02:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.180; Received: by qyk29 with SMTP id 29so3576444qyk.18 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 02:20:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.95.146 with SMTP id d18mr3659124qcn.119.1290939637063; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 02:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.226.15 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 02:20:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 11:20:37 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] [fanva] "Water freezes at zero degrees Celsius, doesn't it?" From: Remo Dentato To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rdentato@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rdentato@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Brian Shannon wrote: >> The first one would be a real question that also conveys a sort of >> doubt: I think I know the answer but I ask to be sure. > > The first one asks a question without conveying doubt. The meaning of > {xu} doesn't change depending on where it is in the sentence. To > express doubt, you would use {ju'ocu'i} > Yes, if i *wanted* to express that I had doubts I would have used {ju'ocu'i} but I could not wanting to do it. If I say {xu mi klama} or {mi klama vau xu} I am asking exactly the same thing, the fact that I put {xu} at the end is purely stylistic and the two different constructions may or may not be perceived as different. What is the real difference between: "Is the sky blu?" or "The sky is blu, isn't it?" ? From a semantic point of view both are questions about the color of the sky, if there's any reason why they are different, that difference is in the mind of speaker (and possibly in the mind of the listener). Same goes for lojban. My point is that Lojban is a language where you can be precise *at will*. Nowhere is written that I *must* always be as precise as possible. When I'm using lojban with other humans I might want to be ambigous and vague. When I'll use with computers (if ever) I'll be as precise as possible. remod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.