From lojban-beginners+bncCIycn8S8DhDVvc3oBBoEuyvY8Q@googlegroups.com Thu Dec 23 06:38:32 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PVmJH-00085R-Nx; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 06:38:32 -0800 Received: by vws1 with SMTP id 1sf2960122vws.16 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 06:38:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=QrVewcvRn9fKtCeSFoWj/ZMfbokp9fTH1eLyhxtM0XY=; b=HBmFsvGDHGHRf4i83fN/z0dMoXVQR2tdtMy38sEnGXbV7cFXeWB3TjeVCD6OjWjVEs Yiu0ioJpbx76jMMRZ15E7jjFB5wUqG6JMLQBnMrV1D8RC+riG0iCNHkRrbPiVzwvF6+a 2rfu75KMWL7wFhgsQrCNSgTK+GC70IGZM1qNk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=36mwyNod/O4UYyEquPpuC4DIPXiK7Z/hmQAZUb5WUTBUOos7uBdzpYJU0IYWw23HaN EUaKdFhdsqDWCVwbliXQVWxiisNYhC2rrrVelPUtxSka+85mivpCwrsUgwkVU7oPudMy k33GF7p5kwxAcDpiQsbSqSF4HsfhPmlXrJNRc= Received: by 10.220.193.5 with SMTP id ds5mr358437vcb.43.1293115094007; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 06:38:14 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.67.197 with SMTP id s5ls630815vci.2.p; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 06:38:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.186.12 with SMTP id cq12mr3167079vcb.20.1293115093113; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 06:38:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.186.12 with SMTP id cq12mr3167078vcb.20.1293115093088; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 06:38:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vw0-f46.google.com (mail-vw0-f46.google.com [209.85.212.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l22si604558vbn.4.2010.12.23.06.38.12; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 06:38:12 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.46 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.46; Received: by mail-vw0-f46.google.com with SMTP id 16so2400595vws.19 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 06:38:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.186.75 with SMTP id cr11mr7304016qcb.113.1293115091915; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 06:38:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.212.1 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 06:38:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 09:38:11 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] taxonomic .a descriptive From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 8:10 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > Before I get into the the nitty-gritty of the actual purpose of this, I want > to make sure a few things are clear. > > Firstly, I am not intending to begin a debate, discussion, argument, > what-have-you with this, I am merely curious as to the opinions of our > community as a whole and the reason for these opinions. So, this is more > like a poll. I am of course willing to have debate, discussion, et al., so > if anyone else wants to, I invite you to do so on the lojban list. > > Secondly, to the best of my knowledge, neither method is "correct" or > "official", although I believe that, traditionally at least, taxonomic beats > out descriptive. > > So, on to the poll. > > I have recently been thinking about a subject about which, in the past, I > have been very vocal about, that being Lojban names for various species. At > this time, there are basically two ways we do things, which I refer to as > taxonomic, i.e. basing the lojban name upon the Linnaean (did I spell that > right?) name, such as {bramlatu la.acinonyx.jubatus.} (big-cat of species > Acinonyx jubatus), and descriptive, i.e. basing the name on it's > distinguishing characteristics, such as {bramlatu la traji sutra} (basically > - big-cat of species "The Fastest"), both of which are what we call, in > English, the Cheetah. > > So, the poll is, what is your personal preference for species' names, and > why? Do you prefer taxonomic, descriptive, neither both, either depending on > circumstances, etc. etc., and what are your reasons? > > Please do not be afraid to speak up, because the point of this is to get a > reading of the community. I am very curious, and the more of you who answer > - and the more detailed your answer is - the happier I will be, even if the > majority opinion is decidedly opposite of my own (, which is part of the > reason why I have been careful to avoid expressing mine in this message.) > > Also, I would love to see other examples of Lojban names for things, such > as, if anyone has another idea for what to call a Cheetah, or a Red-tailed > Hawk (which is actually a buzzard, I recently learned), or any other > creature. > > Remember, any discussion, debate, arguing, what-have-you on the main list, > this beginner's list thread is only for voicing your opinion. > > -- Like Pierre, I also use a mixed approach, but don't really like fu'ivla, unless they are rather widespread (which in turn usually comes from animals that are natively confined to a small area, so had only local names originally, which were then borrowed into a wide range of languages (e.g. zebra, giraffe, kangaroo)). I probably prefer a lujvo approach, unless it's too unwieldy to differentiate one (classification of) animal from similar ones, in which case I'll go the linnean route. But really, I don't mind any name for an animal, as long as it's actually entered in jbovlaste (which unfortunately, many of Pierre's creations have NOT been, although I appreciate the taxonomy page in the wiki, they should also be in the official dictionary), so when I come across it in reading, I can find out what it is, or in writing, don't have to reinvent the wheel. Case in point, while playing in lojban cantr, I came across critters called orkotonida, a word that's not in jbovlaste, nor seemingly anywhere according to google. I THINK it might be ochotonidae, pikas, but I have no way of knowing this unless it's in jbovlaste. (And if it is, it might better be ogdoi, which is the mongolian name from which the genus derive, or rokyractu, or ractrpika....) --gejyspa -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.