From lojban-beginners+bncCMW93IevGRC0iM_oBBoED3V7DQ@googlegroups.com Thu Dec 23 13:51:04 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PVt3r-0005UO-9U; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:51:04 -0800 Received: by pzk9 with SMTP id 9sf308931pzk.16 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:50:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=siY+WIq4QWYqZBXCrBFW1I/vz8gyuZqYKICNYUHKObY=; b=rYc70wfLQMyguTZQ7TRqm8caeGTats3J4KxbFgZ8Q8P1mrMDToMafcSJ7I7ks1PD3g eeWVH6ZCN4lMMOOW/EVPcgLGrs6gYKdhngcbnqjb5kFM7yOUbQffDDDBkB3YOGUsLm1W /LhYWcDPpx4bh3RIN+EIQYLekl1Q9ICcQuUR4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Yz0V/Yq5hnZ4+9jJbrxJfkXy3c1K2zJkjk/+5Hiqer4HtyAnEOVSrlzcMov/4a1RC7 84lIacNDTEKphbNTJXLaaZviFV8pcw43Bpk3moHsNfMBwfk3Oo3hNPhcaFLHIi1rE4Pp urYfh08ERnGYs6DpCnI5NMVeewPldk8hzHeiU= Received: by 10.142.249.18 with SMTP id w18mr455904wfh.8.1293141044640; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:50:44 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.121.31 with SMTP id t31ls8702904wfc.3.p; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.150.22 with SMTP id x22mr6363340wfd.26.1293141043759; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.150.22 with SMTP id x22mr6363337wfd.26.1293141043727; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pw0-f42.google.com (mail-pw0-f42.google.com [209.85.160.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id n6si8537131wfl.7.2010.12.23.13.50.43; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of matthew@matthew-walton.co.uk designates 209.85.160.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.42; Received: by pwj5 with SMTP id 5so463777pwj.1 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:50:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.57.9 with SMTP id f9mr6946767wfa.108.1293141043489; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.89.17 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:50:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 21:50:43 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Knitting From: Matthew Walton To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: matthew@matthew-walton.co.uk X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of matthew@matthew-walton.co.uk designates 209.85.160.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=matthew@matthew-walton.co.uk Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am a knitter, but not much of a Lojbanist. On 23 December 2010 20:57, Michael Turniansky wrote= : > =A0I am not a knitter (or is that I am knot a nitter?), but I shall try > to address your questions. > > On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Alex Rozenshteyn = wrote: >> Sorry for the multiple emails in a short span of time, but when I have >> lojban questions, they tend to come in bursts. >> >> {nivji} is the word for the act of knitting; e.g. {mi mo'u nivji lo >> nivycreka} for "I finished knitting a sweater." (or will finish, or once >> long ago finished, etc.) >> >> But what word describes a knitting needle?=A0 Is it a {nivji jesni}?=A0 = In >> Russian, there is a unique root for "knitting needle" that has nothing t= o do >> with "needle" (although crocheting is "knitting with a hook")? >> > =A0If you don't want to use nivji jesni (nivjesni), I don't think > anyone would have a hard time understanding nivji tutci (nivytci) or > even nivji grana (nivga'a) All three of those are doable, although I think {nivji tutci} could be rather broader than just the knitting needles, and cover all the other kinds of tool used for knitting too. >> How should "Right side" and "Wrong side" be described?=A0 Right side ref= ers to >> the side of the material that is intended to be seen when the {selnivji}= is >> complete.=A0 Wrong side refers to the side which is not intended to be s= een. >> Double-knitted projects [can be said to] have two right sides and no wro= ng >> side. > > selvi'a sefta and tolselvi'a sefta, it would seem to me. They seem plausible - it's certainly an accurate description of the role of the two sides of the fabric. The alternative might be based on {bartu}, but then again flat things don't necessarily have a {bartu} so {selvi'a} works for me. >> What words are used to mean "knit" and "purl" in the sense of the two >> stitches?=A0 In Russian they're called (loosely translated, of course) "= face >> side thingy" and "wrong side thingy" >> > > Here my ignorance of knitting will fail me, but what do you thing of > cranivji and rixnivji? As in, "x1 knits" and "x1 purls", I assume. I like the idea of looking at them as either forward and backward stitches, or like the Russian basis, face side and wrong side. "Knit" and "Purl" aren't really very descriptive by themselves, they're just convenient. Also handily, {cranivji} and {rixnivji} start with different letters, which is important if you're writing abbreviated pattern instructions which I'm sure would be necessary, although I don't know how that fits into the grammar - but English knitting instructions for a row usually look something like: "Row 2: k5, k2tog, p1, yo, p1, ssk, k5" (knit five, knit two together, purl 1, yarn over, purl 1, slip-slip-knit, knit five). Yes we'll need some more terminology for the decreases, increases and other such things (cabling should be fairly easy to describe actually). >> What word should be used to describe the little loops that form over a >> needle?=A0 In English they're also called stitches (and so are the >> arrangements of knit/purl that form patterns, with such names as >> stockinette, garter, ribbing, seed/moss; granted, Russian only has a nam= e >> for "ribbing"), but in Russian they're called loops. > > clupa seems fine. Seems plausible to me as well. Thus when you're talking about an already-knitted purl stitch, you'd be saying {rixclupa}. I probably shouldn't mention crochet yet... let's get knitting sorted first= . mi'e mathw --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.