From lojban-beginners+bncCNTPpI2KGxCAxNzpBBoEwRgECw@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 19 09:40:38 2011 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pfc1J-0005xJ-4j; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 09:40:38 -0800 Received: by qyl38 with SMTP id 38sf3173560qyl.16 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 09:40:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis :x-cloudmark-score:x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=IRUK/SU2v3JdeeL86ljytGV248x3dVlm2F8YnkuA+J0=; b=eQ6qTP2FKBPoSM3hs4salF8v+ap4HOQ2n+vvUNfQ3UfnVDZT+yu1M34BhmUHBwYKN+ hO5pOlI7bqxg0VYDjQkZmau6beTAt8ZpcotFf2LjV35ydLW9jnP43gUTlfcRy59kxb73 6yPmrveEvchSci6vZ29ieqyotAni8qHTBlXSg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=zhhyw3EJVDpSurUrU9qERyesbud3gNlGAPKk2P+1uMe9q4bJ6c8zmx0Og/dmdsP799 gRxi5F514R9ZeSRhKhUbeLPfI/5GZtSJ6GHllOnIq5hzEtDkFxwV8APnLldbHMQ0XVzB M/GZAl2yH/xpiUOW088d86hVDlqJqkkMp95MI= Received: by 10.229.8.212 with SMTP id i20mr157288qci.17.1295458816280; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 09:40:16 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.75.218 with SMTP id z26ls2687557qcj.3.p; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 09:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.85.10 with SMTP id m10mr80172qcl.21.1295458815494; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 09:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.85.10 with SMTP id m10mr80171qcl.21.1295458815477; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 09:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id y9si1692119qcc.12.2011.01.19.09.40.15; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 09:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.120 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.120; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=uESSSoDEku2quKX/oFXS2Smn5+55LTFcWFr5T5T8nFs= c=1 sm=0 a=uIupYPalvNAA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=Q9fys5e9bTEA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=KckkORmLL2a3y8KBD70A:9 a=w8WQLWavWVPBscPtfIwA:7 a=ldfRFs_d6J-obyXYNqeaev6a9S8A:4 a=PUjeQqilurYA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:53256] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id D9/36-07087-EF1273D4; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:40:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4377C13F5F for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:40:14 -0500 (EST) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] lo se valsi be zo zi'o cu frica lo se valsi be lu noda li'u ma Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:40:08 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201101191240.11116.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.120 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday 19 January 2011 10:53:48 Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: > Was my subject line clear and correct, and could it be more succinct? > > I feel like I'm missing some subtlety in the difference between the use of > {zi'o} and the use of {noda}. If I say {noda klama} I'm saying that there > does not exist anyone that goes (in the obvious from context manner). If I > say {zi'o klama}, am I talking about a type of going which does not involve > a goer (I acknowledge that this is slightly nonsensical; I'm just trying to > understand). "zi'o klama" means that there is a relation among a destination, an origin, a route, and a vehicle that may or may not involve a goer. So to say "This road goes from Charlotte to Raleigh" you can say "zi'o klama la ralix. la carlyt. le vi dargu" (of course you could also use "dargu" as the main selbri). This would make more sense if there were automatic vehicles that traveled on said road whether or not they contained passengers. On Wednesday 19 January 2011 11:58:13 Ian Johnson wrote: > If I remember correctly: > .i ko'a broda no da .ijo ko'a na broda > That is, if there does not exist anything such that ko'a broda's them, then > ko'a does not broda in general, and vice versa. > On the other hand {ko'a broda zi'o} and {ko'a broda da} are essentially > unrelated sentences, because {broda zi'o} is essentially an entirely new > relation. I'm not sure about {ko'a broda zi'o po'o}, though. I regard "zi'o po'o" as nonsense. Pierre -- lo ponse be lo mruli po'o cu ga'ezga roda lo ka dinko -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.