From lojban-beginners+bncCNTPpI2KGxDNxejpBBoEGSDyoA@googlegroups.com Fri Jan 21 16:20:52 2011 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PgRDk-0004mW-Bx; Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:20:52 -0800 Received: by qyl38 with SMTP id 38sf5330373qyl.16 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:20:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis :x-cloudmark-score:x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=ahE2R5YpVm3eyGxaMTOYVEpaGELn9+U+g9g5lYB+fms=; b=Gm+iCeYRfN2IPi8Jec9JhouDAs5HC+6e7+j+U5tZTeP8KE7qJiWCv5wx6HN70s3xpT bQqc5BMLb43xvrQ+o+t/Mqvnf0AKM10p3aTrpafLQFjRph3zU7bfTWuaWw85TbjJjmIw 8Qyf3HEQ3lWRT0mXHieVDV0b4QoOwOqgGh+xE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; b=nrfiwSHsgnmh6QOrRr61rPZXhEmbYg0NQlK3bgQcTUJGg6c9CYccTZMkxXhG7SlPM/ 66ypMPl08ryMiemJrBrbROTUincLlJ5V37o1Oa2MDpVuJ7Do5myUPY5d3lW3PP1mA4uL UZcCDyN38Q/pfkcOMRsBiZSPCFZWBnNEmSnsE= Received: by 10.229.66.169 with SMTP id n41mr185560qci.26.1295655629818; Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:20:29 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.176.70 with SMTP id bd6ls410750qab.5.p; Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:20:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.28.148 with SMTP id m20mr129307qac.16.1295655627917; Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:20:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.28.148 with SMTP id m20mr129306qac.16.1295655627906; Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:20:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.122]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id y9si2286078qcc.4.2011.01.21.16.20.27; Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:20:27 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.122; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=3jtQBdTzPyV+fq4oCU/u8ZPrJJGN11HvhaDVxyWhycI= c=1 sm=0 a=Al9GPYBctCMA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=FTjuGSDs34GR-r9kfP0A:9 a=YhHZ8qawLcPlHqK3XQpasmz80u8A:4 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:53579] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 11/68-02631-AC22A3D4; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 00:20:27 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id F17DC14051 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2011 19:20:24 -0500 (EST) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Questions on the sounds chosen for Lojban Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 19:20:03 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <7a56acc4-c2ce-47fe-ba09-b1f6a61eb59d@c39g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> <4D39AB52.7000207@perpetuum-immobile.de> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201101211920.14656.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Friday 21 January 2011 11:42:35 Luke Bergen wrote: > But there are only 6 vowel letters and there are (off the top of my head)= 8 > fundamental vowel sounds that can't be constructed from diphthongs of oth= er > vowels. These are lojban a, e, i, o, u, and y plus the english b[a]t and > b[i]t. Turkish has eight vowels, but they are not those eight. The eight in Turkis= h=20 are a, e, =C4=B1, i, o, =C3=B6, u, =C3=BC. AFAIK Turkish and some related l= anguages are the=20 only ones with this three-bit vowel system: three phonetic features can be= =20 true or false, all eight possibilities are used, and they are in alphabetic= al=20 order. Finnish and German also have eight vowels, but they have a slightly= =20 different set: no =C4=B1, but =C3=A4. (a, o, u), (e, i), (=C3=A4, =C3=B6, = =C3=BC/y). "=C4=B1" is like=20 Russian yery (lips unrounded like i, tongue back like u); "y" in Finnish is= =20 the same as "=C3=BC" in German (lips rounded like u, tongue forward like i)= . Pierre --=20 li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.