From lojban-beginners+bncCJKRpP31BRCApuzpBBoEpSdh_g@googlegroups.com Sat Jan 22 09:25:50 2011 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PghDV-0000rw-OO; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:25:50 -0800 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf2208582ywh.16 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:25:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip :references:user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ODszySOIJaKNfNt2DzO456WlU3A4FHmse+26K/8d/BM=; b=JZjEw0UqJEWEDzZjy1AdeD03aKdZAau/1SPh4B/n+e9mPV4/s+KlCUxud2A6fcMO7v blK8ccP+mFg9vIWox8Gq8Jf4X8nGsGBMuvgSim1nlaI5uZBzf58hE92+OkcjFO7Rd/Zk nu3NZEa07yeVse5BvqoJCv1ryvUHcsyGlFkqI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=peDNGG5+a+EgtgdHhBuQ9cS8+1w9dF6f9CsmXG8HfDUNyBlO0JZDvHFclvBADKamEc nauHkdu267vuVPn2pzpNS5TV/gPfi8Dr8egFBekUazoPkwhkpJi3vh/dZ3Qq+9H87Of8 q8/eCxVw0XcCaEdQ5lbI4FbrZsadr9XljQSI4= Received: by 10.151.44.20 with SMTP id w20mr215727ybj.28.1295717120068; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:25:20 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.173.16 with SMTP id v16ls987030ybe.5.p; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:25:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.151.108.13 with SMTP id k13mr545064ybm.49.1295717117605; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:25:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.3.18 with SMTP id 18mr81097anc.79.1295716899332; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by d19g2000yqi.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:21:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:21:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 68.142.57.136 References: <7a56acc4-c2ce-47fe-ba09-b1f6a61eb59d@c39g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.16 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/10.0.642.2 Safari/534.16,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Questions on the sounds chosen for Lojban From: Zifre To: Lojban Beginners X-Original-Sender: kmicklas@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The "x" sound does exist in Mandarin. (It's "h" in pinyin.) It's not as strong as in some other languages, but it's definitely not the same as the soft "h" in English (or ' in Lojban). mu'o mi'e zif On 21 ene, 12:06, Michael Turniansky wrote: > On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 1:41 AM, Greendogo wrote: > > I was wondering what criteria was chosen for the sounds used in > > Lojban. > > > For instance, why was the German sound used for "x" used, but the > > sounds [th]ink, [th]e, b[a]t, and b[i]t were not? > > Of the six source langauges of lojban the hard/soft th exists in > English and Arabic, and as a allophone to d/t in Spanish. =A0Hindi has > sounds that are close-ish, but not the same, and they don't exist in > Russian nor Mandarin. > > =A0 By comparison the X sound exists in Spanish, Russian, Arabic, in > Hindi loanwords, and not in English or Mandarin. > > =A0 But as Timoa says, you can voice the ' as a "th", if you wish (since > "H" similarly doesn't exist in many languages as is hard for some to > do). =A0Most people don't, though. > > =A0 Vowels, on the other hand, tend to drift rather dramatically by > speakers of various regions, so they were chosen to be as far apart > phonemically, as possible. > > =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejsypa --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.