From lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBCxz-zpBBoEk8ji0g@googlegroups.com Sat Jan 22 10:54:04 2011 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pgiax-0002kV-KO; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:54:04 -0800 Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19sf2256870gxk.16 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:53:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=r8aJd1CDwPWvF7dS8bKFvh8XwKMwOxXE04JVxQADQ0I=; b=53dux2Os3Ad9BlT3y0EaolAJk+qvzeZGbVhD/2j/InKtAbN74KbThT1Ok+AdSOPkGU t9Z6q3QqZWeYwiWAKl8sqq/JnfpSzDcZBw7KQn4r4DGhykG1bo53rZMHa0U4L4GcNt9Q zXcKl7CnuIVryqG03zUIyC0FYkO1sws/1G4Sg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=MT8nWN8zUqg7wCMxYSZi2aOTKEXLOCZ209LUxATjeFS5uhy3DLxSVoxzpX78TW1o5W M/Avlfg1SB1FomolYSTWrr9WSx3LxdZ3yIdMM/Ktymn7UHD5L9MEVUzqHpizuQacfgsY yE4uvgz1apmddtMzGp7w1m7pFDsY4wfYAikw4= Received: by 10.90.89.1 with SMTP id m1mr163685agb.24.1295722417725; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:53:37 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.200.3 with SMTP id eu3ls569769ibb.1.p; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.15.203 with SMTP id l11mr816861iba.6.1295722417093; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.15.203 with SMTP id l11mr816860iba.6.1295722417034; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f175.google.com (mail-iy0-f175.google.com [209.85.210.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j25si2682746ibb.0.2011.01.22.10.53.36 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:53:36 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.175; Received: by iyj18 with SMTP id 18so2884587iyj.34 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:53:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.36.198 with SMTP id u6mr2499275ibd.100.1295722415889; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:53:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.200.148 with HTTP; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:53:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.200.148 with HTTP; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:53:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 13:53:35 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] oh my god, please make it stop, it hurts so much! (was: Re: Questions on the sounds chosen for Lojban) From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0021cc022382539ef8049a73e273 --0021cc022382539ef8049a73e273 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Why exactly is this bad, timos? The cll does it because how else can we explain to nintadni that "o" says english "bold" not "so"? I find that now that I have a pretty good grasp of lojban pronounciation, I have a new tool to help me better communicate differences of accent. Ideally I should just get off my lazy arse and learn IPA though :( i.e. lojban vowels don't help me to describe the difference in pronounciation of "b[o]ston". But the difference between english "pie" and "pipe" is most certainly distinguishable using lojban vowels (the difference being "pai" vs and "pyip"). Just try saying "pie" in english followed quickly by the "p" sound and you will hear that it sounds funny and distinctly not like "pipe" On Jan 22, 2011 1:29 PM, "Timo Paulssen" wrote: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0021cc022382539ef8049a73e273 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Why exactly is this bad, timos?=A0 The cll does it because how else can = we explain to nintadni that "o" says english "bold" not= "so"?

I find that now that I have a pretty good grasp of lojban pronounciation= , I have a new tool to help me better communicate differences of accent.=A0=

Ideally I should just get off my lazy arse and learn IPA though :(

i.e.=A0 lojban vowels don't help me to describe the difference in pr= onounciation of "b[o]ston".

But the difference between english "pie" and "pipe" = is most certainly distinguishable using lojban vowels (the difference being= "pai" vs and "pyip").=A0 Just try saying "pie&quo= t; in english followed quickly by the "p" sound and you will hear= that it sounds funny and distinctly not like "pipe"

On Jan 22, 2011 1:29 PM, "Timo Paulssen&quo= t; <timonator@perpetu= um-immobile.de> wrote:

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