From lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBDu_-zpBBoEV7fTag@googlegroups.com Sat Jan 22 12:37:24 2011 Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PgkD2-0001jL-Ec; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:37:24 -0800 Received: by yia27 with SMTP id 27sf2315869yia.16 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:37:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=vhdDM58pq1pK8v4YZ2dIYSvtc/Gj762kciE0IJ1E75I=; b=CoxqsS+Ef3JuNKJLWu9OVVRMuWTT53iwJBSiOmXRpFQgcUm1avtckO648mvdMEXmeF HXLS4f+FAX1uDT+9nlASptF4fDAHn+TgJd62bSINdCFcZhdpYmwIZplFsEYK/RWwOKXr ugUiur8IeSPGiLx3UqQijWt66jL+XYJBqFdOw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=hrxffaxbv9BGSOCN0a1iCZudlkq5erQ7RAASWxgUaYEECltQfJ7L2CgqvrMZMV13/8 RGEFVFil/PcVoq9ZQAAPYSDI832vX88P1fc4fWwWqjrLs0OK09bWSP7rKhXyCoi97GBu Ft2+w+CHeMtN7AzUhhFj1o+//iaGBvyTNjjjY= Received: by 10.90.95.10 with SMTP id s10mr171169agb.51.1295728622777; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:37:02 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.76.165 with SMTP id c37ls3198370ibk.3.p; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:37:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.36.66 with SMTP id s2mr829856ibd.5.1295728622095; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:37:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.36.66 with SMTP id s2mr829855ibd.5.1295728622057; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:37:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f180.google.com (mail-iw0-f180.google.com [209.85.214.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m30si2697749ibu.6.2011.01.22.12.37.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:37:01 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.180; Received: by iwn37 with SMTP id 37so2897896iwn.11 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:37:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.36.198 with SMTP id u6mr2586761ibd.100.1295728620815; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:37:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.200.148 with HTTP; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 12:37:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4D3B307D.60603@perpetuum-immobile.de> References: <4D3B307D.60603@perpetuum-immobile.de> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 15:37:00 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] oh my god, please make it stop, it hurts so much! (was: Re: Questions on the sounds chosen for Lojban) From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0021cc0223822b4a58049a7554b8 --0021cc0223822b4a58049a7554b8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable mi na se cnixai Even apart from lojban I'd like to learn the IPA for the purpose of being able to talk about accents via text (in emails and whatnot). If I learnt german I would use both german and loljban letters/words to describe how I pronounce some things in english. The more different ways one can describe a thing, the less chance there is of confusion (because th= e more distinct ways you describe a thing, the narrower the possible scope of that thing becomes). love is like: . With each line the scope of the analogy becomes narrower. On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Timo Paulssen < timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de> wrote: > On 01/22/2011 07:53 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > > Why exactly is this bad, timos? The cll does it because how else can w= e > > explain to nintadni that "o" says english "bold" not "so"? > > > > That is right, but I've been on the IRC for ages and every time a newbie > comes in, we have to re-explain to them how to pronounce stuff, because > in their accent o sounds like a, e sounds like i, a sounds like =F6, i > sounds like y and whatnot. I do realize, that teaching this to people > with IPA would be perfect, but not possible and I do have to admit, that > I cannot suggest a better way, but I am completely certain, that > discussing pronunciation like that will lead us nowhere at all. > > My mail was also pretty much a knee-jerk thing, so I apologize to > anybody who might feel offended. > > mu'o mi'e timos > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --0021cc0223822b4a58049a7554b8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable mi na se cnixai

Even apart from lojban I'd like to l= earn the IPA for the purpose of being able to talk about accents via text (= in emails and whatnot).

If I learnt german I would= use =A0both german and loljban letters/words to describe how I pronounce s= ome things in english. =A0The more different ways one can describe a thing,= the less chance there is of confusion (because the more distinct ways you = describe a thing, the narrower the possible scope of that thing becomes).

love is like: <insert 5 million lines of poetry on t= he subject of love>. =A0With each line the scope of the analogy becomes = narrower.

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at = 2:31 PM, Timo Paulssen <timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de> wrote:<= br>
On 01/22/2011 07:53 PM, L= uke Bergen wrote:
> Why exactly is this bad, timos? =A0The cll does it because how else ca= n we
> explain to nintadni that "o" says english "bold" n= ot "so"?
>

That is right, but I've been on the IRC for ages and every time a= newbie
comes in, we have to re-explain to them how to pronounce stuff, because
in their accent o sounds like a, e sounds like i, a sounds like =F6, i
sounds like y and whatnot. I do realize, that teaching this to people
with IPA would be perfect, but not possible and I do have to admit, that I cannot suggest a better way, but I am completely certain, that
discussing pronunciation like that will lead us nowhere at all.

My mail was also pretty much a knee-jerk thing, so I apologize to
anybody who might feel offended.

mu'o mi'e timos

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
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