From lojban-beginners+bncCJGY6cDlFhDkoO_pBBoE7XaBqA@googlegroups.com Sat Jan 22 22:53:46 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PgtpW-00033N-8o; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:53:46 -0800 Received: by fxm10 with SMTP id 10sf1682746fxm.16 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:53:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=KLSxBh/xXD/Q2mS5Y+xQ0ZtAXK2HejJI0Za4TWEtQWo=; b=1GQgaS5yfAooqDGAJUa5uU7by9y8FaY2It//YtBryBugbFOkPFSC2bBAbIIlPNaqtF xHVq482/K2Uawr560MNNDPcV9+AEU8sTXY+vXHbolKkx8eLyURD9s+0R0L9vmpvu+ekx f6ot+KTkq6NrIEr1qF7SPAEBel1jpqBLLnISw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=qFUY6usfyA6X0r0FX86djiT3qB7N6/5ID9kBJCK33SNChI7P++LkXMrMULVNyE8SLZ vYV+N6CNfD4qdDZYEONIU9lsPv4PXB4Xe+wLMcCrYjpFxShd0jbxo+UKaSMs1Xg0PV6J g14CHd4+W6xC0nhaPArrBP6pBBRkqcc6EerwY= Received: by 10.223.71.207 with SMTP id i15mr224837faj.19.1295765604213; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:53:24 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.179.8 with SMTP id bo8ls1126518bkb.1.p; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:53:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.16.207 with SMTP id p15mr176262bka.22.1295765602123; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:53:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.16.207 with SMTP id p15mr176261bka.22.1295765602070; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:53:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-fx0-f47.google.com (mail-fx0-f47.google.com [209.85.161.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n19si2016252bks.1.2011.01.22.22.53.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.47; Received: by mail-fx0-f47.google.com with SMTP id 17so3177667fxm.6 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:53:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.118.136 with SMTP id v8mr2719544faq.90.1295765600844; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:53:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.66.220 with HTTP; Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:53:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <7a56acc4-c2ce-47fe-ba09-b1f6a61eb59d@c39g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> <201101222052.29967.phma@phma.optus.nu> <201101222311.04942.phma@phma.optus.nu> From: Oren Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 01:53:00 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Questions on the sounds chosen for Lojban To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: get.oren@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=get.oren@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5b4c259ba81049a7df0e6 --001636c5b4c259ba81049a7df0e6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm always upset when American English dictionaries don't distinguish between this: A "long i" sound at the end of a syllable is always like lojban "ai" Ex. Pie, why, thigh But when followed by an *unvoiced* consonant, it's more like the lojban "yi" Ex. Might, nice, knights ...However, if the following consonant is *voiced* (or a fluid), then it remains like "ai" Ex. Wise, climb, mile On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 23:19, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: > I really need to learn IPA... ( {.a} X-SAMPA ) > > > On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 11:11 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > >> On Saturday 22 January 2011 22:29:18 Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: >> > So does "bite" sound kinda like "buy 't" (where " 't " is "it" with the >> "i" >> > chopped off)? >> >> Yes. However, "Buitenzorg", being Dutch, I pronounce differently. ("uy" >> and "ui" are pronounced the same in Dutch, AFAIK, but are different from >> "ei" >> and "ij".) >> >> Pierre >> -- >> The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> > > > -- > Alex R > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- Oren Robinson (315) 569-2888 102 Morrison Ave Somerville, MA 02144 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --001636c5b4c259ba81049a7df0e6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm always upset when American English dictionaries do= n't distinguish between this:

A "long i" s= ound at the end of a syllable is always like lojban "ai"

Ex.
Pie, why, thigh

But w= hen followed by an *unvoiced* consonant, it's more like the lojban &quo= t;yi"

Ex.
Might, nice, knights

...However, if the following consonant is *voiced* (or = a fluid), then it remains like "ai"

Ex.<= /div>
Wise, climb, mile

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 23:19, Alex Rozenshteyn <rpglover64@gmail.com> wrot= e:
I really need to learn IPA... ( {.a} X-SAMPA )


On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 11:11 PM, P= ierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Saturday 22 Jan= uary 2011 22:29:18 Alex Rozenshteyn wrote:
> So does "bite" sound kinda like "buy 't" (wher= e " 't " is "it" with the "i"
> chopped off)?

Yes. However, "Buitenzorg", being Dutch, I pronounce differ= ently. ("uy"
and "ui" are pronounced the same in Dutch, AFAIK, but are differe= nt from "ei"
and "ij".)

Pierre
--
The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain.

--
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--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R=

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--
Oren Robinson
(315) 569-2888
102 Morrison Ave
Somerville, MA 02144

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