From lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBDNvoTpBBoEbY5SFQ@googlegroups.com Sun Jan 02 16:59:11 2011 Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PZYlP-0004Ly-DM; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 16:59:11 -0800 Received: by yia27 with SMTP id 27sf7385798yia.16 for ; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 16:59:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=4tr3pGdHigTo/uF5cM+CvG0F1bDUrKUpFdkQjHZQm3w=; b=z6F9spkTq6JztSLNbiRZGdeUsmjfBa73v0aP2z7KQ707V8eI5Y1PVkXvR26Q8si35s n3p5joaEntbdi7IFRNTCvkwsymau2oA9tXQwkHWU0ouI/VgolymoXr2VouFPMJjP9GWM dJ06Upv5quAohPI9wyN0oeqbFGaX6T/QvVOK8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=ZwNFOagPaDtzELkiXeS35zK1K0Q7rfMlS+qItld3CNHe+wazRVHymsTujmZ2W7QlfE 4uRKxRrcI/9VSB3OYQl0uJBuBrFvZ0OtdTYNgszLc6Pj6BqzB2W1B6v79b0ERTVi2t4k aaNiEKGWSqNBU+t1wM8KCpnGWdfESjbkVsxSc= Received: by 10.91.94.3 with SMTP id w3mr654094agl.16.1294016333196; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 16:58:53 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.76.165 with SMTP id c37ls9198909ibk.3.p; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 16:58:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.16.131 with SMTP id o3mr1324384iba.18.1294016332510; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 16:58:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.16.131 with SMTP id o3mr1324383iba.18.1294016332475; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 16:58:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f174.google.com (mail-iw0-f174.google.com [209.85.214.174]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id cu19si4446639ibb.5.2011.01.02.16.58.51 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 02 Jan 2011 16:58:51 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.174; Received: by iwn9 with SMTP id 9so12959223iwn.19 for ; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 16:58:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.13.137 with SMTP id c9mr19874706iba.37.1294016331326; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 16:58:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.19.199 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Jan 2011 16:58:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 19:58:51 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Argument repetition for emphasis? From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.174 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0022150467efc326980498e6a709 --0022150467efc326980498e6a709 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Actually, I wonder if ju'e is vague enough that pretty much anything which relates the two objects would suffice. For example, I have a feeling that {ko'a ju'e ko'e} could legitimately describe {ko'a mensi ko'e}. So, for example {la .rik. fa la djein. se cinri lo smani} -> {la .rik. ju'e la .djein. se cinri lo smani} -> {la .rik. .e la .djein. se cinri lo smani} OR -> {la .rik. joi la .djein. se cinri lo smani} OR (and I have no idea what this means semantically) {lo su'u la .djein. mensi la .rik. kei se cinri lo smani}. I have no idea what that would mean, but I do know that {ju'e} is completely vague in the same sense that {lo} is. To say that {lo broda ju'e lo brode} is a mass, set, sequence, etc... would be wrong. To say that it's a logical connection of any kind would also be wrong. So, I guess it's just a 100% context driven connective. In that sense, I think either noi or poi would work because indeed, any piece of text which relates ko'a and ko'e could potentially describe ko'a ju'e ko'e. Or maybe I'm just being silly and ju'e is just a shortcut for "one of the other obvious connectives but I'll never tell which one... " On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: > I'd say that {lo broda be fa lo brode} == {lo broda NOI ke'a brode} is > probably fair; an interesting question is which NOI it is, though. I'd be > inclined to say it's actually poi, not noi. > > Of course, this can change a bit when we're already talking about {lo > brode}, I think, though I have a hunch that THAT thought actually is just me > being malglico. > > > mu'o mi'e .latros. > > On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> That makes sense, but if I saw "lo fatci be fa lo du'u mi nakni" I would >> read that as something like "lo du'u mi nakni kei noi ke'a fatci". As in "I >> am male (which is a [true ]fact)". >> >> But that might just be me being malglico. >> On Jan 2, 2011 2:37 PM, "Michael Turniansky" >> wrote: >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0022150467efc326980498e6a709 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually, I wonder if ju'e is vague enough that pretty much anything wh= ich relates the two objects would suffice. =A0For example, I have a feeling= that {ko'a ju'e ko'e} could legitimately describe {ko'a me= nsi ko'e}. =A0So, for example {la .rik. fa la djein. se cinri lo smani}= -> {la .rik. ju'e la .djein. se cinri lo smani} -> {la .rik. .e = la .djein. se cinri lo smani} OR -> {la .rik. joi la .djein. se cinri lo= smani} OR (and I have no idea what this means semantically) {lo su'u l= a .djein. mensi la .rik. kei se cinri lo smani}.

I have no idea what that would mean, but I do know that= {ju'e} is completely vague in the same sense that {lo} is. =A0To say t= hat {lo broda ju'e lo brode} is a mass, set, sequence, etc... would be = wrong. =A0To say that it's a logical connection of any kind would also = be wrong. =A0So, I guess it's just a 100% context driven connective.

In that sense, I think either noi or poi would work bec= ause indeed, any piece of text which relates ko'a and ko'e could po= tentially describe ko'a ju'e ko'e. =A0Or maybe I'm just bei= ng silly and ju'e is just a shortcut for "one of the other obvious= connectives but I'll never tell which one... </coy>"

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Ian Johnson = <blindbravad= o@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd say that {lo broda be fa lo brode} =3D=3D {lo broda NOI ke'a br= ode} is probably fair; an interesting question is which NOI it is, though. = I'd be inclined to say it's actually poi, not noi.

Of course= , this can change a bit when we're already talking about {lo brode}, I = think, though I have a hunch that THAT thought actually is just me being ma= lglico.


mu'o mi'e .latros.

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Luke Bergen <= span dir=3D"ltr"><lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
<= /div>

That makes sense, but if I saw "lo fatci be fa lo du'u mi nakni= " I would read that as something like "lo du'u mi nakni kei n= oi ke'a fatci".=A0 As in "I am male (which is a [true ]fact)&= quot;.

But that might just be me being malglico.

On Jan 2, 2011 2:37 PM, "Michael Turniansky= " <mturn= iansky@gmail.com> wrote:
<= font color=3D"#888888">

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