From lojban-beginners+bncCPGMg4mHHBCCvvbpBBoE69QHOQ@googlegroups.com Mon Jan 24 07:47:36 2011 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PhOdg-0005GE-FZ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 07:47:36 -0800 Received: by qyl38 with SMTP id 38sf12142244qyl.16 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 07:47:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=fevF/IFR0/Vybx0CPZ46NA9IZKzM6Ml3HQJkM0iMvz0=; b=DnHbFkd+TeKSvTnH5d507paVI0y9lYYUSm5jv70HsVrQu/fYmZDF7klM0d+OT57Awi 3rBri6q6YVtntDZYNER6CuXcU9VWe4uAwF3dkax05+5+le2FkaSChpPgP7RxE5NLs56W RjjNceu1o7QPkKIYtooVtvj0gahlPIGLkr0JU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=sE1hMx18MoJZX25uuIm/pgXIv2wOzcJUqEsrYhqiJ7CNqG/GPzi7XR0OIQ2BkNGnQP Mw8/AiIHLhXv+EUpTGIxSe4IorTmvw29MpvqBoLjSlrjuUS05VqOoBTO2iTeA3z5P2CB 7iPmunFfW/o5W+2Q25LlhptPncIhN8D9s6z8E= Received: by 10.229.183.141 with SMTP id cg13mr501331qcb.30.1295884034459; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 07:47:14 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.195.134 with SMTP id ec6ls1553864qcb.2.p; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 07:47:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.95.80 with SMTP id c16mr576650qcn.5.1295884033097; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 07:47:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.95.80 with SMTP id c16mr576649qcn.5.1295884033054; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 07:47:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vw0-f49.google.com (mail-vw0-f49.google.com [209.85.212.49]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o8si2081972qcu.10.2011.01.24.07.47.11 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 24 Jan 2011 07:47:11 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.49; Received: by vws5 with SMTP id 5so1838919vws.22 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 07:47:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.95.211 with SMTP id e19mr3997736qcn.53.1295884031654; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 07:47:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.176.71 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 07:47:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201101231026.58946.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 16:47:11 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] oh my god, please make it stop, it hurts so much! (was: Re: Questions on the sounds chosen for Lojban) From: Ivo Doko To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: ivo.doko@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=ivo.doko@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636427058607b43049a998357 --001636427058607b43049a998357 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 23 January 2011 18:04, Luke Bergen wrote: > I see what you mean now timos about how it's bad idea to talk > about pronunciations in terms of english words. Just because I pronounce > pie and pipe like {pai} and {pyip} does not mean that all americans do th= e > same. In fact, according to the abstract in the paper that Oren found, I > may very well be in the minority. > You are the first person I've ever heard of who pronounces "pipe" like [=CB= =88p=C9=99 ip]. If you really do pronounce it like you say you do then what you're saying is a two-syllable word, so are you sure that what you're saying is not actually [=CB=88p=C9=99jp] or [=CB=88p=C9=99=CB=90jp]? Nevertheless, a = schwa in the pronunciation of "pipe" is extremely unusual, more so because in English schwa is never stressed, and the syllable in "pipe" is a stressed syllable. The usual pronunciation of the word is [=CB=88pajp] or [=CB=88pa=CB=90jp]. Well, I'm off to learn IPA > A good idea. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --001636427058607b43049a998357 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 23 January 2011 18:04, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com= > wrote:
I see what you mean now timos about how it's bad idea to talk about=C2= =A0pronunciations=C2=A0in terms of english words. =C2=A0Just because I pron= ounce pie and pipe like {pai} and {pyip} does not mean that all americans d= o the same. =C2=A0In fact, according to the abstract in the paper that Oren= found, I may very well be in the minority.

You are the first person I've ever heard of= who pronounces "pipe" like [=CB=88p=C9=99= ip]. If you really do pronounce it like y= ou say you do then what you're saying is a two-syllable word, so are yo= u sure that what you're saying is not actually [=CB=88p=C9=99jp] or [=CB=88p=C9= =99=CB=90jp]? Nevertheless, a schwa in the pronunciation of "pipe" = is extremely unusual, more so because in English schwa is never stressed, and the syllable in "pipe" is a stressed= syllable. The usual pronunciation of the word is [=CB=88pajp] or [=CB=88pa=CB=90jp].
=C2=A0

Well, I'm off to learn IPA

A good idea.

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