From lojban-beginners+bncCIycn8S8DhC9nffpBBoEslvYfg@googlegroups.com Mon Jan 24 11:11:15 2011 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PhRol-0004eg-BU; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:11:15 -0800 Received: by qyl38 with SMTP id 38sf12479386qyl.16 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:11:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ql+GPKB68KM3wXg9nYyNIzVnUU6zjEzcn4UQVVTdij8=; b=JGCvBD2MJQjhPHNePHpQBJoP1qi1XkOBPfVxidC1RR/nkEXE/vsUnbxEOMwfc+Ahfu VbbOCHMHsQWiw3+Nb1WsiIV6uONPe7A7mrCfyDMeBp/iTcyHzMU0MV/hNVJlh/ynavmH P89BOiazBvDw6aLx89PSgKRf7D0CyNgs6LD3o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=VSpsKH/8bgRXt8kI0+Fdb97PNsU4wkcG4oIYKRiz4NlS09y+7ROaLOxp8fS36hjB1H zLFgn1x1WvZwShEnb4vIILjLxjbDg4fnq+f5bxY6CwspX6TLUdN4testMaQOkscSsMLR pMRvDBjlU9hkAgVT/1nQ8XlGd0XPhRIXFZ3F8= Received: by 10.229.99.199 with SMTP id v7mr568683qcn.16.1295896253825; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:10:53 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.80.196 with SMTP id u4ls25912qck.0.p; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:10:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.81.19 with SMTP id v19mr665046qck.12.1295896247659; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:10:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.81.19 with SMTP id v19mr665033qck.12.1295896240464; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:10:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f46.google.com (mail-qw0-f46.google.com [209.85.216.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ey28si2975343qcb.7.2011.01.24.11.10.39 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:10:39 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.46 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.46; Received: by qwa26 with SMTP id 26so4338843qwa.19 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:10:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.89.78 with SMTP id d14mr4055957qcm.251.1295896239143; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:10:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.213.204 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:10:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:10:39 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] oh my god, please make it stop, it hurts so much! (was: Re: Questions on the sounds chosen for Lojban) From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I believe I possibly do. Listen to my cinchcast for them http://www.cinchcast.com/gejyspa/160251 . I was born and bred in central New Jersey. --gejyspa On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > Odd, I grew up (and presumably=C2=A0acquired=C2=A0by accent) from > eastern=C2=A0Pennsylvania. =C2=A0Not all THAT close to Canada. =C2=A0I on= ly do the "ai" > part of the raising so my "about the house" is not subject to this raisin= g > effect. > Now I'm kind of curious about what parts of the country see this affect. > If anybody is willing to help tickle my curiosity, please reply with your > general location and if you say "rider" and "writer" identically. > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Oren wrote: >> >> Aha. Wikipedia speaks, I am in fact just a very sheltered freak: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_English_regional_phonology#C= anadian_raising >> "the General American pronunciations of=C2=A0rider=C2=A0and=C2=A0writer= =C2=A0are identical >> ([=C9=B9a=C9=AA=C9=BE=C9=9A]), those American English speakers whose dia= lects include either the >> full or restricted Canadian raising will pronounce them >> as=C2=A0[=C9=B9a=C9=AA=C9=BE=C9=9A]=C2=A0and=C2=A0[=C9=B9=C9=99=C9=AA=C9= =BE=C9=9A], respectively. Canadian raising is quite strong in >> most of Ontario and the Maritimes as well as in the Prairies. It is rece= ding >> in British Columbia, and many of these speakers do not raise=C2=A0/a=C9= =AA/=C2=A0before >> voiceless consonants." >> >> Apparently Syracuse, New York qualifies as sufficiently Canadian. >> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:11, MorphemeAddict wrote: >>> >>> My Midwest USA accent has no difference TTBOMK between the vowels of >>> "bold" and "so". Nor are they different in "pie" and "pipe", as a later= post >>> asserts. >>> >>> stevo >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Luke Bergen >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Why exactly is this bad, timos?=C2=A0 The cll does it because how else= can we >>>> explain to nintadni that "o" says english "bold" not "so"? >>>> >>>> I find that now that I have a pretty good grasp of lojban >>>> pronounciation, I have a new tool to help me better communicate differ= ences >>>> of accent. >>>> >>>> Ideally I should just get off my lazy arse and learn IPA though :( >>>> >>>> i.e.=C2=A0 lojban vowels don't help me to describe the difference in >>>> pronounciation of "b[o]ston". >>>> >>>> But the difference between english "pie" and "pipe" is most certainly >>>> distinguishable using lojban vowels (the difference being "pai" vs and >>>> "pyip").=C2=A0 Just try saying "pie" in english followed quickly by th= e "p" sound >>>> and you will hear that it sounds funny and distinctly not like "pipe" >>>> >>>> On Jan 22, 2011 1:29 PM, "Timo Paulssen" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com= . >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >> >> >> >> -- >> Oren Robinson >> (315) 569-2888 >> 102 Morrison Ave >> Somerville, MA 02144 >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.