From lojban-beginners+bncCOib25n_BhD_-5LpBBoEloLSeQ@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 05 10:53:05 2011 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PaYTm-0004oo-Al; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:53:05 -0800 Received: by wyb35 with SMTP id 35sf17180879wyb.16 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:52:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=tCSJsXuQBbPay/qkn0trHjsYUnAn/I2Z4CZu/+PlaIs=; b=epUFpw+EmfyedxLAICnxQh8PcPLHk4XZv8l/PCLKczuz3tss7WVtq4q8zbvbO6Hs4p L+/0hYX4NYPb35cr+jufxhSkggwf1zF5HfPqxPdwnxw8SabLjevJ67PCNNBkW+RdHCYl /ekPlphKTJCTsPmrS0dCtDH9igIopsCofNEbw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=bm3iCws69JGNd1HETZsGiJyfKYx5GVetok5Zk1ydkVII7JSXXuzhk7w7WrsUbVpSlM T1WIWjroawEkVM1yPfhzAHxnOw5Seczx1CzaDyI1X+MQRbpJ4vyCw40ZzHJ6i3oAo0RI +QJKIi5qm3FpKy4HzheZvW6ywhsGFd0LhMXDU= Received: by 10.216.62.83 with SMTP id x61mr3144983wec.12.1294253567563; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:52:47 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.133.15 with SMTP id p15ls838431eei.7.p; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:52:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.14.123.10 with SMTP id u10mr124533eeh.6.1294253566603; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:52:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.14.123.10 with SMTP id u10mr124531eeh.6.1294253566581; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:52:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ey0-f175.google.com (mail-ey0-f175.google.com [209.85.215.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z15si253088eeh.6.2011.01.05.10.52.45 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:52:45 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.175; Received: by mail-ey0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 28so6963451eya.20 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:52:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.4.134 with SMTP id 6mr599116ebr.14.1294253565360; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:52:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.213.28.73 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Jan 2011 10:52:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 13:52:45 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban-beginners] "Not always" From: Alex Rozenshteyn To: tatoeba-lojban@googlegroups.com, lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c1712033c2304991de4d9 --0015174c1712033c2304991de4d9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 They don't always obey their parents. {ko'a roroi tinbe fi lo rirni be ko'a} or {ko'a roroi tinbe fi lo ko'a rinri} would be "They always obey their parents." and I think the first would be preferred. {ko'a na roroi tinbe fi lo rirni be ko'a} seems to me that it doesn't carry the implication of the original English statement that "they" sometimes, and maybe even usually obey their parents, but there exist exceptional occasions. Would using {na'e} instead of {na} carry such an implication? Would it be malgli to try to translate the implication into lojban? Would it be better to move the negative and translate "They sometimes [other-than]-obey their parents."? Additionally, how would one correctly convey the plurality of {ko'a} in this case? Thanks jbocre. I hope I'm not bothering you guys too much. -- Alex R -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0015174c1712033c2304991de4d9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable They don't alw= ays obey their parents.

{ko'a roroi tinbe fi lo rirni be ko= 9;a} or {ko'a roroi tinbe fi lo ko'a rinri} would be "They alw= ays obey their parents." and I think the first would be preferred.

{ko'a na roroi tinbe fi lo rirni be ko'a} seems= to me that it doesn't carry the implication of the original English st= atement that "they" sometimes, and maybe even usually obey their = parents, but there exist exceptional occasions.

Would using {na'e} instead of {na} carry such an im= plication?
Would it be malgli to try to translate the implication= into lojban?
Would it be better to move the negative and transla= te "They sometimes [other-than]-obey their parents."?

Additionally, how would one correctly convey the plural= ity of {ko'a} in this case?

Thanks jbocre. =A0= I hope I'm not bothering you guys too much.

--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

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