From lojban-beginners+bncCLr6ktCfBBDQpZ3pBBoE7MdPug@googlegroups.com Fri Jan 07 09:52:38 2011 Received: from mail-pw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PbGUI-0006Wb-S6; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:52:38 -0800 Received: by pwi2 with SMTP id 2sf5448514pwi.16 for ; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:52:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=gZKtKkYGl8yjYtcMBqcI0et1/ZLaTHV2U7nMwJqKDuA=; b=EZ0XHd0o+ED/GYQWnUx7xKMNr5OJr8LvT/KaNybUHi5eV4T4Xb0/yELFrcBSJ33Gmp fKroorouMgGexqkM/9T7msAl6ZkILk7j7Vcf0nOFQTubBZdrRHv+X67DygqcvTSy4e6q 81BBeVf+zm2IKu/JUbNkmKimk9dpTLVDupW4Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=hj601pyykXFdOmPLC44PaHdaHGpgpfzqbzbIjF4nrMGEdJUGQDGGab+PJroVwFWKw+ gZhNZ3Kqs0rj1oB4xAOTHBp4F94ic8EMjWDXdwIzhUtWdK9yEnRDesPhHyAk1rNTpRgp 5BDvYv1IajRz27M0TO6Blmh2CYj4wruK+sPrQ= Received: by 10.143.85.5 with SMTP id n5mr145421wfl.39.1294422736205; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:52:16 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.121.31 with SMTP id t31ls26290029wfc.3.p; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.221.10 with SMTP id t10mr1909342wfg.63.1294422734819; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.221.10 with SMTP id t10mr1909339wfg.63.1294422734786; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pw0-f51.google.com (mail-pw0-f51.google.com [209.85.160.51]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id f13si2484697wfo.4.2011.01.07.09.52.14; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.160.51 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.160.51; Received: by pwj4 with SMTP id 4so3410610pwj.24 for ; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.161.2 with SMTP id j2mr1910320wfe.245.1294422734464; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net [68.35.167.179]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e14sm2946442wfg.8.2011.01.07.09.52.12 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:52:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 10:52:09 -0700 From: ".alyn.post." To: Lojban Beginners Subject: [lojban-beginners] didactic bridi Message-ID: <20110107175209.GC30739@alice.local> Mail-Followup-To: Lojban Beginners Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.160.51 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline I've brought this issue up once before, but I can articulate a little better what I'm looking for, so I'm updating with new information. I've been using a "Where are your Keys?" technique for memorizing vocabulary called "Craig's List." As translated to Lojban, I call them {valsi porsi}. Here are two examples: http://lodockikumazvati.org/valsi_porsi/gismu/skari/ http://lodockikumazvati.org/valsi_porsi/gismu/farna/ I memorize these by memorizing their ASL sign and the order that I say them in. I do this both for the gismu and the rafsi, and in the case of the farna valsi porsi, the lujvo created from that set. I've been struggling over how to also include place structure, so I can start by saying "stuna snanu stici berti," move to "sun nan sic ber," move to "stuna nanstuna snanu ..." and then finally a bridi that describes all of the place structures that are common between this set of valsi. The goal is to build from one small pice to the whole notion (gismu, rafsi, sumti tcita) of a wordlist. I've been looking for a statement that I could use that would be true for all members of the farna valsi porsi, or a statement template that would be true by varying a pattern. I was reminded of a (class of) phrase a friend of mine uses sometimes: "I'm tired like a very tired thing." Roughly translated into my best attempt at Lojban: .i mi tatpi du'i lo tatpi I'm wondering if this kind of statement has legs as a short didactic bridi that I can use to remember place structure for gismu. For my farna example: .i mi stuna lo stuna I'm east of an east thing. It might even make more sense to say: .i mi stuna lo stici I'm east of a west thing Or getting all of the place structures: .i mi stuna lo stuna lo mi manri I'm east of an east thing in my frame of reference. Can anyone here generalize this at all? What am I reaching for here and can the Lojban be more succinct or general beyond the farna case? How am I doing with this direction of thinking, can you do better? -Alan -- .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.