From lojban-beginners+bncCML0xpmUARCnlYPpBBoEvNEe2g@googlegroups.com Sun Jan 02 10:58:06 2011 Received: from mail-pw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PZT7u-0000RB-Dn; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 10:58:05 -0800 Received: by pwi2 with SMTP id 2sf3898425pwi.16 for ; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 10:57:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=BfeXtz+p59z4PN5XIPC8nh+3dsVwvobtXKyEG7NtBYY=; b=X4ewxDG5TvsqLflm8M0prha/oBfstaEhbu9OoNgyT5psg3Dk5ZQmpVj191RM7EYNV4 YQEdhC1KRSYbod1I/CDyPOK6XSop6zOgvom5MZh67TDraGb3uEFEVlkqc0Kp0JF7jKei Bn8XtdBZvILKM1ZvLKIT5HwNM5pPctdD8URlQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=gbQnbdym3qMc/IHLU3bxWns2o5vvhXLwEVDjeyPJXoDrjdJZI+cmiAC9MSoX9Ij3g1 I9/3AmnEjFzQi9fsr03Ysq1adAYCq6GOOokzh7FdjnpSJG9zqWS1Ji29JeJgXk8Lk38l 13byShm9tlXGpHB83a9F/dBE0TSv48Mg2lAkE= Received: by 10.143.178.1 with SMTP id f1mr904296wfp.64.1293994663568; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 10:57:43 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.121.31 with SMTP id t31ls20324252wfc.3.p; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 10:57:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.216.16 with SMTP id o16mr14850442wfg.40.1293994662787; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 10:57:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.216.16 with SMTP id o16mr14850439wfg.40.1293994662744; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 10:57:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pw0-f47.google.com (mail-pw0-f47.google.com [209.85.160.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id n6si20898427wfl.3.2011.01.02.10.57.41; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 10:57:41 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.47; Received: by pwi8 with SMTP id 8so1719328pwi.34 for ; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 10:57:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.143.5.20 with SMTP id h20mr3968256wfi.31.1293994661598; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 10:57:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.103.17 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Jan 2011 10:57:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201012310927.35103.kfa@gmx.net> Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 13:57:41 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Argument repetition for emphasis? From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636e0a91c2556ac0498e19c4e --001636e0a91c2556ac0498e19c4e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Can {be fa} be used in a similar way? Put another way, what is {lo broda be fa lo brode}? mu'o mi'e .latros. On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 4:51 AM, David Gowers (kampu) <00ai99@gmail.com> > wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 4:01 AM, Remo Dentato wrote: > >> > >> On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 9:27 AM, wrote: > >>> > >>> Coi, > >>> > >>> I found out rather accidentally that the following parses: {ry fuzme fa > ry > >>> lo > >>> nu...} or {ry fuzme fa vo'a lo nu...}. Would this be a good way of > saying > >>> "it's r's own fault that..." with putting emphasis on "own" as > alternative > >>> to > >>> {ba'e}? > >>> > >> > >> I like the idea. The risk is that it may be confusing if abused. > >> > >> remo > >> > > > > IMO it is confusing to start with. normally, an argument is a single > > item -- you cannot fill a place twice.. instead you can fill it with, > > for example: lo xunre .e lo blabi > > > > -- my understanding of the grammar is that {lo xunre .e lo blabi} is a > > single sumti, > > and {lo xunre ku carmi fa lo blabi} has an undefined meaning. > > > > In this vein, {ry .e ry fuzme lo nu..} is a way of expressing the > > strange type of emphasis expressed above, in a more simple idiom. > > > > You most certainly can fill the same place twice. See CLL, 9.3.9 > Luke is correct about the meaning, and I've certainly used it myself > (e.g. "mi pu klama le patfu be mi fe la flaridas.") > --gejyspa > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --001636e0a91c2556ac0498e19c4e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can {be fa} be used in a similar way? Put another way, what is {lo broda be= fa lo brode}?

mu'o mi'e .latros.

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 4:51 AM, David Gowers (kampu) <00ai99@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 4:01 AM, Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 9:27 AM, <kfa@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Coi,
>>>
>>> I found out rather accidentally that the following parses: {ry= fuzme fa ry
>>> lo
>>> nu...} or {ry fuzme fa vo'a lo nu...}. Would this be a goo= d way of saying
>>> "it's r's own fault that..." with putting em= phasis on "own" as alternative
>>> to
>>> {ba'e}?
>>>
>>
>> I like the idea. The risk is that it may be confusing if abused. >>
>> remo
>>
>
> IMO it is confusing to start with. normally, an argument is a single > item -- you cannot fill a place twice.. instead you can fill it with,<= br> > for example: lo xunre .e lo blabi
>
> -- my understanding of the grammar is that {lo xunre .e lo blabi} is a=
> single sumti,
> and {lo xunre ku carmi fa lo blabi} has an undefined meaning.
>
> In this vein, {ry .e ry fuzme lo nu..} is a way of expressing the
> strange type of emphasis expressed above, in a more simple idiom.
>

=A0You most certainly can fill the same place twice. =A0See CLL, 9.3= .9
Luke is correct about the meaning, and I've certainly used it myself (e.g. "mi pu klama le patfu be mi fe la flaridas.")
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa

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