From lojban-beginners+bncCOib25n_BhDL4rTpBBoEYE58tg@googlegroups.com Tue Jan 11 20:43:12 2011 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PcsY6-0000do-PM; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:43:11 -0800 Received: by wyb35 with SMTP id 35sf162605wyb.16 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:42:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=pjEAsk3faGrenenx8wfpL9sue0T727N5NJs7KJpuyjM=; b=A8gA1x9/6PQ5iKXiDXnZzeBxYKtWbYyau1EhSR58YF+aKkhvmJrVOMoDytY0mPyopG pP61gVMx9PDegL0XFOb4HhFh9O7XZ1QA6n6ripf9X+XN4810XKXNelmZ52ESEbl9Opq1 bfE+ltfTU7T0eJaiWVxZIJ0SN4tsD9v0Y1Dyc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=J0xSqSDNbtgQZU2pzJ4nUCBZ1EkTadA0fzN5E2mgWjHt5kyjVEpyB4y3hG2R+wpv7d HIpHUGB9ZDJI6QhQaHUNfeW+AxIZyet3IorfQR+VTmHJLDQiSgI/pBmaiE1UiHplTz5m eCtLYJd8RirM43ych+Q1IlufH+reXBzY6HABk= Received: by 10.216.73.74 with SMTP id u52mr753957wed.16.1294807371158; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:42:51 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.126.1 with SMTP id a1ls5672eei.2.p; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:42:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.14.37.79 with SMTP id x55mr97377eea.29.1294807370156; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:42:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.14.37.79 with SMTP id x55mr97376eea.29.1294807370018; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:42:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ey0-f172.google.com (mail-ey0-f172.google.com [209.85.215.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z15si92799eeh.6.2011.01.11.20.42.48 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:42:49 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.172; Received: by eyd10 with SMTP id 10so75280eyd.31 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:42:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.17.2 with SMTP id q2mr3516969eba.40.1294807368588; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:42:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.213.28.73 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:42:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201101112018.32029.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 23:42:48 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Define "define" From: Alex Rozenshteyn To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1fe6a41df3204999ed5f2 --000e0cd1fe6a41df3204999ed5f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think selzanfri is interpreted as (selzan)fri. If you want {se zanfri} I think you need to say {selkemzanfri}. Source: http://dag.github.com/cll/12/11/ On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Luke Bergen wrote= : > I like the idea of specifying a meaning. What about something like > "smuski" for "x1 defines x2" so "definition" would be selsmuski. A "mean= ing > description". I guess there's a slight difference between "describing > meaning" and "assigning meaning". > > This brings up another question for me though. In general, if I have a > lujvo like {zanfri} and then I coin a new lujvo like {selzanfri}... would= it > be understood as {sel (zanfri)} which would be something like "a favorabl= e > happening"? Or would it be understood as {(selzan)fri} which would be > something like... well I guess I'd still interpret that as a favorable > happening. But my question is: if there is a well understood lujvo with= 3 > or 4 slots, and then someone comes along and makes a new lujvo with {sel}= or > some such tacked on to the front, should I read that lujvo as {se = } > or as a brand new lujvo where the {sel} applies to the first rafsi and no= t > the whole lujvo? > > > On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Ian Johnson wrot= e: > >> There is always {zei}; I think {ca'e zei bridi} is probably a good lujvo >> option for "axiom" (the obvious competitor being {.aksioma}). >> >> mu'o mi'e .latros. >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote= : >> >>> On Tuesday 11 January 2011 19:19:50 Luke Bergen wrote: >>> > so why not selvla? >>> >>> I think to define is to specify the meaning, but I don't know how to >>> say "specify". We have "specific", but not "specify". We also have >>> "ca'e", >>> but it doesn't have a rafsi. "ca'esmu" is glossed as >>> "push-ing-meaning(s)??". >>> >>> Pierre >>> -- >>> When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates. >>> J=E1 n=E3o percebe nada, j=E1 n=E3o percebe nada. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > --=20 Alex R --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --000e0cd1fe6a41df3204999ed5f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think selzanfri is interpreted as (selzan)fri.=A0 If you want {se zanfri}= I think you need to say {selkemzanfri}.

Source: http://dag.github.com/cll/12/11/

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrot= e:
I like the idea of=A0specifying=A0a meaning. =A0What about something like &= quot;smuski" for "x1 defines x2" so "definition" w= ould be selsmuski. =A0A "meaning description". =A0I guess there&#= 39;s a slight difference between "describing meaning" and "a= ssigning meaning". =A0

This brings up another question for me though. =A0In general, if I= have a lujvo like {zanfri} and then I coin a new lujvo like {selzanfri}...= would it be understood as {sel (zanfri)} which would be something like &qu= ot;a favorable happening"? =A0Or would it be understood as {(selzan)fr= i} which would be something like... well I guess I'd still interpret th= at as a favorable happening. =A0But my question is: =A0if there is a well u= nderstood lujvo with 3 or 4 slots, and then someone comes along and makes a= new lujvo with {sel} or some such tacked on to the front, should I read th= at lujvo as {se <lujvo>} or as a brand new lujvo where the {sel} appl= ies to the first rafsi and not the whole lujvo?


On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Ian Jo= hnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
There is always {zei}; I think {ca'e zei bridi} is probably a good lujv= o option for "axiom" (the obvious competitor being {.aksioma}).
mu'o mi'e .latros.


On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Tuesday 11 Jan= uary 2011 19:19:50 Luke Bergen wrote:
> so why not selvla?

I think to define is to specify the meaning, but I don't know how to say "specify". We have "specific", but not "specif= y". We also have "ca'e",
but it doesn't have a rafsi. "ca'esmu" is glossed as &quo= t;push-ing-meaning(s)??".

Pierre
--
When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates.
J=E1 n=E3o percebe nada, j=E1 n=E3o percebe nada.

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--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

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