From lojban-beginners+bncCJGY6cDlFhCUv7fpBBoEZV5Aaw@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 12 09:06:50 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pd49l-0004Nr-OU; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:06:50 -0800 Received: by fxm10 with SMTP id 10sf338779fxm.16 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:06:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Ke0DLFBpZe5nEx7OkRrfe0lEJBhSZroI1y9tSUxZ0xo=; b=pOvJ6WwTxiJdSPSl9uzBOGnK4J9Cycesm9NMBghZFpoxmMuNvgdPIpiXuzMZFNxuza OlcXmtAaXRLPY0XeJDUe4VJGEWpQoFhzrZdtv+tndDXjdPucr8IQIqpYn24VQSRryCJ4 zAPsjLV/nX74an/2UoIn7UEn+OVl4ZUHWzDos= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=bjDiPj3KEI2kxjdke0EH8p516A6ueCQgC8Y78nel9y9cCZfqowhKl8ll2RJqBPYpUA h4hMAoXhsHeFq/JWxT5lsnkcCEC0BZ+mf6KXdcXuprYfwyL8VqajDZUMgD5z7M4O+bdp dr0Ux5MYy7UnJNk6oXKVTI2RsGyRwcvEO0HUs= Received: by 10.223.103.3 with SMTP id i3mr2632fao.14.1294851988246; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:06:28 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.18.198 with SMTP id x6ls313227bka.2.p; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:06:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.7.7 with SMTP id b7mr119874bkb.0.1294851705897; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:01:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.7.7 with SMTP id b7mr118115bkb.0.1294850812470; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:46:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-bw0-f44.google.com (mail-bw0-f44.google.com [209.85.214.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id n19si40935bks.5.2011.01.12.08.46.51; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:46:51 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.44; Received: by bwz12 with SMTP id 12so686391bwz.17 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:46:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.78.72 with SMTP id j8mr928447bkk.113.1294850811170; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:46:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.63.148 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:46:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201101112018.32029.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4D2D97F6.8060402@lojban.org> <201101121112.38216.phma@phma.optus.nu> From: Oren Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:46:29 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Define "define" To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: get.oren@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=get.oren@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f85a80a311160499a8f239 --001485f85a80a311160499a8f239 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "define" english etymology: "to specify; to end," from O.Fr. defenir "to end, terminate, determine," an= d directly from L. definire "to limit, determine, explain," from de- "complet= ely" (see de- ) + finire "to bou= nd, limit," from finis "boundary, end" http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=3Ddefine&searchmode=3Dnone ...so i think that another approach is not to focus on the "definition" as = a meaning, but rather a boundary or expanse of meaningspace with indicated boundaries. like... { selsinxa selkuspe } "a signed meaning kind-of extent" { smumi korbi } "A meaning kind-of boundary" On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:22, Luke Bergen wrote: > I feel special now. After 24 long years, I am no longer (nor ever will b= e > again)... a tosp. > > > On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote= : > >> On Wednesday 12 January 2011 07:00:54 Bob LeChevalier, President and >> Founder - >> LLG wrote: >> > What does "specify" mean (other than as a pretentious word for 'say')? >> > %^) I'm not sure whether it is really all that close to either to the >> > concepts specific or species as used in the gismu list >> >> A few weeks ago I defined "=E1=BC=80=CF=86=CE=B5=CE=B4=CF=81=CF=8E=CE=BD= " as "toilet, latrine" in Wiktionary. >> It's a >> word I found while reading the Bible in Greek, and there's only one othe= r >> occurrence in known Ancient Greek writings. I did not specify the meanin= g; >> I >> described or asserted the meaning. When I was a kid, I defined "tosp" as >> "one >> who does not know what a tosp is". Since this was a new word and a new >> concept, I specified the meaning. >> >> Pierre >> -- >> li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > --=20 Oren Robinson (315) 569-2888 102 Morrison Ave Somerville, MA 02144 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --001485f85a80a311160499a8f239 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"define" english etymology:
"to specify; to en= d," from O.Fr.=C2=A0defenir=C2=A0"to end, terminate, determine," and dire= ctly from L.=C2=A0de= finire=C2=A0"to limit, determine, explain," from=C2=A0de-=C2=A0"co= mpletely" (see=C2=A0de-) +=C2=A0finire=C2=A0&quo= t;to bound, limit," from=C2=A0finis=C2=A0"boundary, end"

...so i think that another approach is not to focus on the = "definition" as a meaning, but rather a boundary or expanse of me= aningspace with indicated boundaries.

like...
{ selsinxa selkuspe } "= a signed meaning kind-of extent"
{ smumi korbi } "A meaning kind-of boundary"
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:22, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gma= il.com> wrote:
I feel special now. =C2=A0After 24 long yea= rs, I am no longer (nor ever will be again)... a tosp.


On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Pierre= Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Wednesday 12 January 2011 07:00:54 Bob Le= Chevalier, President and Founder -
LLG wrote:
> What does "specify" mean (other than as a pretentious word f= or 'say')?
> %^) =C2=A0I'm not sure whether it is really all that close to eith= er to the
> concepts specific or species as used in the gismu list

A few weeks ago I defined "=E1=BC=80=CF=86=CE=B5=CE=B4=CF=81=CF= =8E=CE=BD" as "toilet, latrine" in Wiktionary. It's a word I found while reading the Bible in Greek, and there's only one oth= er
occurrence in known Ancient Greek writings. I did not specify the meaning; = I
described or asserted the meaning. When I was a kid, I defined "tosp&q= uot; as "one
who does not know what a tosp is". Since this was a new word and a new=
concept, I specified the meaning.

Pierre
--
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa

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--
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--
Oren Robinson
(315) 569-2888
102 Morrison Ave
Somerville, MA 02144

--
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