From lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBCdyrfpBBoEiEG06Q@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 12 09:30:30 2011 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pd4WZ-0002Cz-CO; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:30:29 -0800 Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19sf612753gxk.16 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:30:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=hxtEupK+cnAywrWqJLtYe0cNCq7JjZjGsRNTKywVRQc=; b=3ZNFgKqiHVNpewHySSJ3R9fyC309TQ9+mTOF5P4sw4PGVKFUnDSTdk5pIvjqfVvHji cIWm1pavJKi+UukfJYdcgUhoDBNkBujbWZiPy8KNgRjY805dE525B18bT1LGe1DgqKtA MU03lbTWAjfzkQl6tH4YGToyiunwV3n0MlAU8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=i/CYTNvTPO02jj48mR/XAceis7SUktl5Aud0U3jmalvHbfYJOkhDUCq09RxFlTDVns OMeEWK6Sw1XKMHjxqVwSYyho7kPORgB1DMoYThzVTqs+xmyPRJAIFnq/EDBAnZK3L3ly VM0Hbu/gKWVHOEbrxDcWmyXCxE3LXllbnQMnk= Received: by 10.151.135.1 with SMTP id m1mr185946ybn.65.1294853405161; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:30:05 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.76.165 with SMTP id c37ls938480ibk.3.p; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:30:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.16.131 with SMTP id o3mr501101iba.18.1294853008645; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:23:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.16.131 with SMTP id o3mr496847iba.18.1294852586336; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:16:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id m30si210073ibu.6.2011.01.12.09.16.25; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:16:25 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.172; Received: by iyi42 with SMTP id 42so723332iyi.3 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:16:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.36.198 with SMTP id u6mr1272179ibd.100.1294852584821; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:16:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.200.148 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:16:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201101112018.32029.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4D2D97F6.8060402@lojban.org> <201101121112.38216.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 12:16:24 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Define "define" From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0021cc0223825ad6640499a95c8b --0021cc0223825ad6640499a95c8b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd be careful with korbi. {lo korbi} is the edge in and of itself, it doe= s not include what it contains. That would be the {selkorbi}. If "red" were defined as the wavelength between X and Y, then I would understand {lo smukorbi be lo ka xunre} to be something like {the set of wavelengths X and Y (and not necessarily those wavelengths in between)}. Of course, since smukorbi is a lujvo, you could define it to mean the roof of a barn and would be so (albeit it would be really confusing). I'd just be more comfortable with something like {canlu} or {selkuspe} or something. On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Oren wrote: > "define" english etymology: > "to specify; to end," from O.Fr. defenir "to end, terminate, determine," > and directly from L. definire "to limit, determine, explain," from de- "c= ompletely" > (see de- ) + finire "to > bound, limit," from finis "boundary, end" > http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=3Ddefine&searchmode=3Dnone > > ...so i think that another approach is not to focus on the "definition" a= s > a meaning, but rather a boundary or expanse of meaningspace with indicate= d > boundaries. > > like... > { selsinxa selkuspe } "a signed meaning kind-of extent" > { smumi korbi } "A meaning kind-of boundary" > > On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:22, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> I feel special now. After 24 long years, I am no longer (nor ever will = be >> again)... a tosp. >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote= : >> >>> On Wednesday 12 January 2011 07:00:54 Bob LeChevalier, President and >>> Founder - >>> LLG wrote: >>> > What does "specify" mean (other than as a pretentious word for 'say')= ? >>> > %^) I'm not sure whether it is really all that close to either to th= e >>> > concepts specific or species as used in the gismu list >>> >>> A few weeks ago I defined "=E1=BC=80=CF=86=CE=B5=CE=B4=CF=81=CF=8E=CE= =BD" as "toilet, latrine" in Wiktionary. >>> It's a >>> word I found while reading the Bible in Greek, and there's only one oth= er >>> occurrence in known Ancient Greek writings. I did not specify the >>> meaning; I >>> described or asserted the meaning. When I was a kid, I defined "tosp" a= s >>> "one >>> who does not know what a tosp is". Since this was a new word and a new >>> concept, I specified the meaning. >>> >>> Pierre >>> -- >>> li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >> > > > > -- > Oren Robinson > (315) 569-2888 > 102 Morrison Ave > Somerville, MA 02144 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --0021cc0223825ad6640499a95c8b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd be careful with korbi. =C2=A0{lo=C2=A0korbi} is the edge in and of = itself, it does not include what it contains. =C2=A0That would be the {selk= orbi}. =C2=A0If "red" were defined as the wavelength between X an= d Y, then I would understand {lo smukorbi be lo ka xunre} to be something l= ike {the set of wavelengths X and Y (and not necessarily those wavelengths = in between)}.

Of course, since smukorbi is a lujvo, you could define it to= mean the roof of a barn and would be so (albeit it would be really confusi= ng). =C2=A0I'd just be more comfortable with something like {canlu} or = {selkuspe} or something.

On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Oren <get.oren@gmail.com> wrote:

...so i thi= nk that another approach is not to focus on the "definition" as a= meaning, but rather a boundary or expanse of meaningspace with indicated b= oundaries.

like...
{ selsinxa selkuspe } "a sign= ed meaning kind-of extent"
{ smumi korbi } "A me= aning kind-of boundary"

On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:22, Luke Ber= gen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
I feel special now. =C2=A0After 24 long years, I am no longer (nor ever w= ill be again)... a tosp.


On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Pierre= Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Wednesday 12 January 2011 07:00:54 Bob Le= Chevalier, President and Founder -
LLG wrote:
> What does "specify" mean (other than as a pretentious word f= or 'say')?
> %^) =C2=A0I'm not sure whether it is really all that close to eith= er to the
> concepts specific or species as used in the gismu list

A few weeks ago I defined "=E1=BC=80=CF=86=CE=B5=CE=B4=CF=81=CF= =8E=CE=BD" as "toilet, latrine" in Wiktionary. It's a word I found while reading the Bible in Greek, and there's only one oth= er
occurrence in known Ancient Greek writings. I did not specify the meaning; = I
described or asserted the meaning. When I was a kid, I defined "tosp&q= uot; as "one
who does not know what a tosp is". Since this was a new word and a new=
concept, I specified the meaning.

Pierre
--
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa

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--
Oren Robinson
(315) 569-2888
102 Morrison Ave
Somerville, MA 02144

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