From lojban-beginners+bncCJGY6cDlFhDL8fbpBBoEwvhu3A@googlegroups.com Mon Jan 24 09:37:44 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PhQMA-0003yu-Tr; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:37:44 -0800 Received: by fxm10 with SMTP id 10sf2274671fxm.16 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:37:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=XYlmTSskyNX54q8OkuBRkYRsfPjuSVZbvPAkS3wXYFQ=; b=1vvtonl9lWPbnmJITnb1airTGOclyWbKRKkpq1ClZZGHEXMvG7sKzPKHz6uYlrMTeK kiLi6/YSFms/vb9eCf9ldkkmSfCYNy6rudL/0xKAwFyHAbpv4FX5NTImVMZi/xFLH2w1 s5equrKBV2Orb00smi/vzjfzm/fQb2mK/eGOg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=OAFKkiE98y17EdmGy1jCXpzclp7ULL4oNbzaVEJdefO+cK7tfLj9U/ANxPCYkND9ze 6P3Gv5Ja+SaBSJuQnf+4E2bdmQNDf2Bz9BJBr5Z7UjJtbTY01XppWowLtFVRKsdXyuaR B9Bj1DIJCJGQBjlIV5W1rWMhC/cfaCdYGmmhs= Received: by 10.223.75.203 with SMTP id z11mr357630faj.22.1295890635813; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:37:15 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.120.8 with SMTP id b8ls762884bkr.0.p; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.103.76 with SMTP id j12mr324251bko.18.1295890632924; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:37:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.103.76 with SMTP id j12mr324250bko.18.1295890632875; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:37:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-bw0-f51.google.com (mail-bw0-f51.google.com [209.85.214.51]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dd11si2317682bkb.4.2011.01.24.09.37.11 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:37:11 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.51 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.51; Received: by mail-bw0-f51.google.com with SMTP id 10so3857771bwz.38 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:37:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.123.144 with SMTP id p16mr3904603bkr.25.1295890620883; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:37:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.112.7 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:35:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Oren Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:35:00 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] oh my god, please make it stop, it hurts so much! (was: Re: Questions on the sounds chosen for Lojban) To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: get.oren@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.51 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=get.oren@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dd8969217b98049a9b0c97 --0016e6dd8969217b98049a9b0c97 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Aha. Wikipedia speaks, I am in fact just a very sheltered freak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_English_regional_phonology#Cana= dian_raising "the General American pronunciations of *rider* and *writer* are identical = ( [=C9=B9a=C9=AA=C9=BE=C9=9A]), those American English speakers whose dialect= s include either the full or restricted Canadian raising will pronounce them as [=C9=B9a=C9=AA= =C9=BE=C9=9A] and [=C9=B9=C9=99=C9=AA=C9=BE=C9=9A], respectively. Canadian raising is quite s= trong in most of Ontario and the Maritimes as well as in the Prairies. It is receding in British Columbia, and many of these speakers do not raise /a=C9=AA/ before voiceles= s consonants." Apparently Syracuse, New York qualifies as sufficiently Canadian. On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:11, MorphemeAddict wrote: > My Midwest USA accent has no difference TTBOMK between the vowels of "bol= d" > and "so". Nor are they different in "pie" and "pipe", as a later post > asserts. > > stevo > > On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Luke Bergen wrote= : > >> Why exactly is this bad, timos? The cll does it because how else can we >> explain to nintadni that "o" says english "bold" not "so"? >> >> I find that now that I have a pretty good grasp of lojban pronounciation= , >> I have a new tool to help me better communicate differences of accent. >> >> Ideally I should just get off my lazy arse and learn IPA though :( >> >> i.e. lojban vowels don't help me to describe the difference in >> pronounciation of "b[o]ston". >> >> But the difference between english "pie" and "pipe" is most certainly >> distinguishable using lojban vowels (the difference being "pai" vs and >> "pyip"). Just try saying "pie" in english followed quickly by the "p" s= ound >> and you will hear that it sounds funny and distinctly not like "pipe" >> On Jan 22, 2011 1:29 PM, "Timo Paulssen" < >> timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de> wrote: >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > --=20 Oren Robinson (315) 569-2888 102 Morrison Ave Somerville, MA 02144 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --0016e6dd8969217b98049a9b0c97 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Aha. Wikipedia speaks, I am in fact just a very sheltered = freak:

"the General American = pronunciations of=C2=A0rider=C2= =A0and=C2=A0writer=C2=A0are iden= tical ([=C9=B9a=C9=AA= =C9=BE=C9=9A]), those American = English speakers whose dialects include either the full or restricted Canad= ian raising will pronounce them as=C2= =A0[=C9=B9a=C9=AA=C9=BE= =C9=9A]=C2=A0and=C2=A0[=C9=B9=C9=99=C9=AA=C9=BE=C9=9A]<= /span>, respectively. Canadian raising= is quite strong in most of Ontario and the Maritimes as well as in the Pra= iries. It is receding in British Columbia, and many of these speakers do no= t raise=C2=A0/a=C9=AA/=C2=A0before voiceless consonants= ."

Apparently Syracuse, New York qualifies as sufficiently Cana= dian.

On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:1= 1, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
My Midwest USA accent has no differenc= e TTBOMK between the vowels of "bold" and "so". Nor are= they different in "pie" and "pipe", as a later post as= serts.
=C2=A0
stevo=C2=A0

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

Why exactly is this bad, timos?=C2=A0 The cll does it because how else c= an we explain to nintadni that "o" says english "bold" = not "so"?

I find that now that I have a pretty good grasp of lojban pronounciation= , I have a new tool to help me better communicate differences of accent.=C2= =A0

Ideally I should just get off my lazy arse and learn IPA though :(

i.e.=C2=A0 lojban vowels don't help me to describe the difference in= pronounciation of "b[o]ston".

But the difference between english "pie" and "pipe" = is most certainly distinguishable using lojban vowels (the difference being= "pai" vs and "pyip").=C2=A0 Just try saying "pie&= quot; in english followed quickly by the "p" sound and you will h= ear that it sounds funny and distinctly not like "pipe"

On Jan 22, 2011 1:29 PM, "Timo Paulssen&quo= t; <timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de> wrote:

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the G= oogle Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, = send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
Oren Robinson
(315) 569-2888
102 Morrison Ave
Somerville, MA 02144

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
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