From lojban-beginners+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCUtPbqBBoE4QPPHw@googlegroups.com Thu Feb 17 13:59:05 2011 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PqBsL-0004Jy-Qt; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:59:04 -0800 Received: by wwb34 with SMTP id 34sf2584612wwb.16 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:58:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=I5u9jZMCgO1fkbq3nitDxqhgtX9z245vY8tElP2U/4Q=; b=ZtlNAY0EgRp3nsJ6GY50Y3hiOT1RrgRt6KiOFX6bzTnB3ZIcwEOVeB2QDWmQChQIIr XtUR9ivRe8zyCf9PVZoNJQ+dVR3SIgv2SNrk3m91FuI8Kvj3fEJAqr4lEZvuNnpmO1xc J4yrnbGBMP1AhgHau2UX2LoBnnetkkwPfpSUw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=YGWSnRf+AFN3hNCMbk/0rwJNZmKok3TWko0lM0wDxn9l6+WVsd1lZBRoWZXrOSKl9x pNNkOLFicKEdHY6dANesmslVEzWuL/X28eOgCF1viA5IorDDdIMETxcrk5GbMom9HmDx By74++ZPHj6yZEbNpYyuloprulnNsZsS/oT04= Received: by 10.216.46.139 with SMTP id r11mr362816web.7.1297979924445; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:58:44 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.162.73 with SMTP id x51ls972743wek.3.p; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:58:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.88.135 with SMTP id a7mr165374wef.5.1297979923257; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:58:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.88.135 with SMTP id a7mr165373wef.5.1297979923184; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:58:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wy0-f180.google.com (mail-wy0-f180.google.com [74.125.82.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l26si171474weq.6.2011.02.17.13.58.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:58:42 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.180; Received: by wyb28 with SMTP id 28so2933966wyb.39 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:58:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.146.80 with SMTP id g16mr2228041wbv.77.1297979921887; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:58:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.54.10 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:58:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <28379654.1304.1297380220015.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prcm35> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:58:41 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] translation check on zo-related quote From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Lindar wrote: >> >> Didn't catch that because it's a weird construction. >> What is the actual meaning of {mi broda je brode} and how does it differ >> from {mi broda gi'e brode}? Obviously it has to have a different meaning >> because of place structure defaults and tanru-ness, but what is this I d= on't >> even ^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w > > =A0 "mi broda je broda" means that I am member of those things that are b= oth > "broda" and "brode".=A0 Of it course that is also true iff "mi broda gi'e > brode" - "I am broda" and "I am brode".=A0 The first construction basical= ly > defines a set of things that is the intersection of two sets, and then > asserts my place in that intersection, whereas the second construction > asserts my membership in the two sets independently, and says that I am i= n > both. Another important difference is in their place structure. The place structure of "broda gi'e brode" is fairly clear: (shared-sumti) broda (sumti-for-broda) gi'e brode (sumti-for-brode) vau (shared-sumti). OTOH, nobody really knows what the place structure for "broda je brode" is, other than for the x1 which works as gejyspa says. Especially when broda and brode don't share identical structures. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.