From lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBDXzfvqBBoEBPzHEQ@googlegroups.com Fri Feb 18 13:38:52 2011 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PqY2K-0006U9-6R; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:38:52 -0800 Received: by yxd5 with SMTP id 5sf482251yxd.16 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:38:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ZNPJhV40RUZ45tmUKMUlFk8oQ3aXpt3lZrC5/yi8pEA=; b=KbRT++iVrpMuX6Ns6LI2vqFlY/RD9he4/vlKn5h1RCu41lzQpIKyXoFgoav8drjWir 2W7tQkxIV78pqE03mUIqWw0PbrE6OpPebOgVuJ/zwnwmT4oNyrg3hv4emlv7MUn7KWzQ D9mSmApSZ5cMsU/h/0qg2ibTFdgz65McEGPik= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=hLuIIVbBXJZKsANvM1h8lOuD1IsoXS99Jakp38AsKrfJ0xHLfS+I4W4UjZmjqWsY1T MFbzQ3doy5JDgZCROcyVXOZhfpTjrDddQTiv0kO7Ej1CQPlvT2ndCWjm+RikG1wNEOSk ikMrPkUhu5z2UPf0qeuV0TPMEgxNauLHo2SIs= Received: by 10.101.1.12 with SMTP id d12mr71074ani.52.1298065111172; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:38:31 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.57.97 with SMTP id b33ls3016704ibh.0.p; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:38:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.1.6 with SMTP id 6mr101602ice.36.1298065110234; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:38:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.1.6 with SMTP id 6mr101601ice.36.1298065110215; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:38:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f179.google.com (mail-iw0-f179.google.com [209.85.214.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gf5si429443icb.2.2011.02.18.13.38.29 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:38:29 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.179; Received: by iwc10 with SMTP id 10so597805iwc.38 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:38:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.37.76 with SMTP id w12mr870675ibd.148.1298065109083; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:38:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.141 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:38:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.141 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:38:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <28379654.1304.1297380220015.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prcm35> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 16:38:29 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] translation check on zo-related quote From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325575896b8e5d2049c9555c5 --000325575896b8e5d2049c9555c5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So in your mind, would the ideal lojban (if it could be redesigned from the ground up) not have a need for zi'o at all? On Feb 18, 2011 4:27 PM, "Jorge Llamb=EDas" wrote: > On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: >>> > {x1 broda fi x2} should be able to be interpreted as {x1 broda [zi'o = | >>> > zo'e >>> > | zu'i] x3} pe'icai >>> >>> Due to the bloated nature of many gismu definitions, that is probably >>> inevitable. >> >> You say that like it's some dreadful thing. > > It is, to some extent. Dreadfully clumsy, at least. > >> If there are bridi that could >> use {zi'o} (and I assume that there are because otherwise what's the point >> of having a zi'o word at all if you're never really being correct by using >> it), then there are going to be times when you're being lazy or in a hurry >> and want to leave it up to context. I don't understand what's so >> undesirable about that. > > It's undesirable that there are gismu that need it. That indicates to > me that their definition was not very well thought out. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --000325575896b8e5d2049c9555c5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

So in your mind, would the ideal lojban (if it could be redesigned from = the ground up) not have a need for zi'o at all?

On Feb 18, 2011 4:27 PM, "Jorge Llamb=EDas&= quot; <jjllambias@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Lu= ke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.co= m> wrote:
>>> > {x1 broda fi x2} should be able to be interpreted as {x1 = broda [zi'o |
>>> > zo'e
>>> > | zu&#= 39;i] x3} pe'icai
>>>
>>> Due to the bloated na= ture of many gismu definitions, that is probably
>>> inevitable.
>>
>> You say that like it's= some dreadful thing.
>
> It is, to some extent. Dreadfully cl= umsy, at least.
>
>> If there are bridi that could
>&= gt; use {zi'o} (and I assume that there are because otherwise what'= s the point
>> of having a zi'o word at all if you're never really being = correct by using
>> it), then there are going to be times when you= 're being lazy or in a hurry
>> and want to leave it up to con= text.=A0 I don't understand what's so
>> undesirable about that.
>
> It's undesirable that= there are gismu that need it. That indicates to
> me that their defi= nition was not very well thought out.
>
> mu'o mi'e xo= rxes
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscri= bed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To pos= t to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@goo= glegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.goo= gle.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>

--
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