From lojban-beginners+bncCOib25n_BhCAoILrBBoEUdbcrQ@googlegroups.com Sat Feb 19 19:52:53 2011 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pr0Lp-0002s7-T3; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 19:52:53 -0800 Received: by gyd10 with SMTP id 10sf268742gyd.16 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 19:52:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=hMKkHFRaBitzpay/5GSIHPuBqDjDsTKh9cZmHnXX3/k=; b=WW0lHVpkFApvpTcn9S7xqdWpL5kbuaYOlMzFwOfe/xdldvRY2Cyc4hlgtXfikc+QWm dFEVq47Dg1j2y/fcRIkt++nW1GUVd3j7XnfWqAXKHJxYaohIPf/zgVoPE8cHikJsZ4vD tYO/v3bol7k4LsKJP8Mgk99PjtOXPWSvk8iRM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=BJnopD3xzHfjv3ROD4ocrU7rumF4XD5o2hoxz5Nqq1uIZ0WkZhntBLZ3Ez7YUQYxz+ fBO/mSaWpga34dAa9uPJdEvM/0vHnaVApXX0fNFvHxzzxn82iHcqIosKrvlBxHxRZUp3 fvwKsk52vEB50DTuswJbxugddgOMaHpAgCB2g= Received: by 10.150.158.4 with SMTP id g4mr373864ybe.63.1298173952741; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 19:52:32 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.2.82 with SMTP id 18ls3864141ibi.2.p; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 19:52:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.20.68 with SMTP id e4mr731588ibb.1.1298173951859; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 19:52:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.20.68 with SMTP id e4mr731586ibb.1.1298173951802; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 19:52:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f179.google.com (mail-iy0-f179.google.com [209.85.210.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d9si831948ibq.3.2011.02.19.19.52.31 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 19 Feb 2011 19:52:31 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.179; Received: by iye19 with SMTP id 19so5264150iye.24 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 19:52:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.3.199 with SMTP id 7mr3179705icp.162.1298173951565; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 19:52:31 -0800 (PST) Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.42.141.67 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 19:52:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 22:52:31 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] lujvo making help request From: ".arpis." To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Cc: Ian Johnson X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0050450164513d5eae049caeadca --0050450164513d5eae049caeadca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Where'd tolcu'i go? > What do you mean? > Also, if you look at the tanru grouping, you have: > (((god-kind-of-exist)-kind-of-impossible)-kind-of-know)-kind-of-believe > which seems to be "believe that you can know that it's impossible for a god > to exist", to me. {cevni zasti djuno tolcu'i krici} seems like the right > tanru, with the lujvo changing analogously. > {cevni zasti djuno tolcumkri} -> zo tolcumkri valsi lo du'u ko'a krici lo du'u ko'e tolcu'i ko'i {cevni zasti juntolcumkri} -> zo juntolcumkri valsi lo du'u ko'a krici lo du'u lo nu djuno ko'e kei tolcu'i ko'i {cevni za'ijuntolcumkri} -> zo za'ijuntolcumkri valsi lo du'u ko'a krici lo du'u lo nu djuno lo du'u ko'e zasti kei kei tolcu'i ko'i {cevza'ijuntolcumkri} -> zo cevza'ijuntolcumkri valsi lo du'u ko'a krici lo du'u lo nu djuno lo du'u ko'i poi cevni kei kei tolcu'i ko'e Does that sound reasonable? That's a mouthful; If people decide to actually use it, I can hope for a ze'ivla, at least. > mu'o mi'e .latros. > > On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:54 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> cevni zasti tolcu'i djuno krici = cevza'iju'okri >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: >> >>> I'm unsatisfied with the current translation of "agnostic" as >>> "god-doubter" >>> >>> While that works in common usage, a more precise definition (at least as >>> it is used in certain circles in which I discuss) would be "one who believes >>> in the unknowability of the existence of a god" >>> >>> so I tried to come up with a lujvo: >>> >>> krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'u zasti fa lo cevni -> {ko'a} >>> believes that it is impossible to know that god exists. (djuno asks for a >>> {du'u}, although {jei} may be more appropriate) >>> fi lo cevni cu krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'u zasti -> {ko'a} >>> believes about god that it is impossible to know that {zo'e} exists >>> cevni krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'u zasti -> {ko'a} god >>> type-of believes that it is impossible to know that {zo'e} exists >>> cevni krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo zasti djuno -> {ko'a} god type-of believes >>> that it is impossible to exist type-of know >>> cevni krici lo du'u zasti djuno tolcu'i -> {ko'a} god type-of believes >>> that (exist type-of know) type-of impossible >>> >>> But I get stuck there. Am I going about this the right way? >>> >>> Is the next progression >>> >>> zasti djuno tolcu'i cevni bo krici = zasti djuno tolcu'i ke cevni krici >>> >>> ? >>> >>> I'd appreciate any advice. >>> >>> -- >>> Alex R >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu >> do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .arpis. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0050450164513d5eae049caeadca Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Where'd tolcu'i go?

What do you = mean?
=A0
Also, if= you look at the tanru grouping, you have:
(((god-kind-of-exist)-kind-of= -impossible)-kind-of-know)-kind-of-believe
which seems to be "believe that you can know that it's impossible = for a god to exist", to me. {cevni zasti djuno tolcu'i krici} seem= s like the right tanru, with the lujvo changing analogously.

{cevni zasti djuno tolcumkri} -> zo tolcumkri valsi lo du'u= ko'a krici lo du'u ko'e tolcu'i ko'i
{cevni zasti j= untolcumkri} -> zo juntolcumkri valsi lo du'u ko'a krici lo du&#= 39;u lo nu djuno ko'e kei tolcu'i ko'i
{cevni za'ijuntolcumkri} -> zo za'ijuntolcumkri valsi lo du'= u ko'a krici lo du'u lo nu djuno lo du'u ko'e zasti kei kei= tolcu'i ko'i
{cevza'ijuntolcumkri} -> zo cevza'ijunt= olcumkri valsi lo du'u ko'a krici lo du'u lo nu djuno lo du'= ;u ko'i poi cevni kei kei tolcu'i ko'e

Does that sound reasonable?
That's a mouthful;=A0 If people deci= de to actually use it, I can hope for a ze'ivla, at least.
=A0
=
mu'o mi'e .latros.

On Sat, Feb 19= , 2011 at 7:54 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:=
cevni zasti tolcu'i djuno krici =3D cevza'iju'okri


On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Alex Rozenshteyn <<= a href=3D"mailto:rpglover64@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rpglover64@gmail.c= om> wrote:
=
I'm unsatisfied with the current translati= on of "agnostic" as "god-doubter"

While that works in common usage, a more precise definition (at least a= s it is used in certain circles in which I discuss) would be "one who = believes in the unknowability of the existence of a god"

so I tried to come up with a lujvo:

krici lo du'u tolcu'= i lo djuno be lo du'u zasti fa lo cevni -> {ko'a} believes that = it is impossible to know that god exists. (djuno asks for a {du'u}, alt= hough {jei} may be more appropriate)
fi lo cevni cu krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'u zasti = -> {ko'a} believes about god that it is impossible to know that {zo&= #39;e} exists
cevni krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'= u zasti -> {ko'a} god type-of believes that it is impossible to know= that {zo'e} exists
cevni krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo zasti djuno -> {ko'a} god typ= e-of believes that it is impossible to exist type-of know
cevni krici lo= du'u zasti djuno tolcu'i -> {ko'a} god type-of believes tha= t (exist type-of know) type-of impossible

But I get stuck there.=A0 Am I going about this the right way?

I= s the next progression

zasti djuno tolcu'i cevni bo krici =3D za= sti djuno tolcu'i ke cevni krici

?

I'd appreciate any= advice.

--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

--
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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko= cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
<= div>

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--
mu'o mi'e .arpi= s.

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