From lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBDvg4XrBBoEZUgg-A@googlegroups.com Sun Feb 20 08:32:04 2011 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PrCCU-0006ej-0p; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 08:32:03 -0800 Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19sf2068801gxk.16 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 08:31:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=MOYEEZMbg4aDrwzrSd22oVIC7MMD0gUTTlIxDtS+ngU=; b=0aVNQ0LMGO18Y9XnYExkKKbaRlCvnChVJuG9we6LqUtEyPE/tX1X7USAAQP6Ssx+KU lwkN5+oqu/7gX1iXRY2HeKdlUn2noVj0c+FRyNxCFJt8/o9vJ4vYdgWf0/zqHg4QCo1I AJkqINxi+6WuJRbBMKCb//8N31kwPp22T6SwU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=Jk/Hq50lCQzOCqIbqTeQ3Ouhhdopn38sy4tZ0rL13KbRiotrn3t5KAuw51h5xQMgZ+ 8cW++Fd1SDG1rsUo13albtdGz59B1QR7ycirbgTPwq6uvyTyS3XJk3UxDhiSwIUN3qgf I+WRxgSPo1Xo6vWsB/YdUESMvAMFvTwY6vtdU= Received: by 10.90.80.14 with SMTP id d14mr54399agb.57.1298219503823; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 08:31:43 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.2.82 with SMTP id 18ls4200060ibi.2.p; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 08:31:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.223.136 with SMTP id ik8mr32564icb.47.1298219503142; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 08:31:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.223.136 with SMTP id ik8mr32563icb.47.1298219503102; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 08:31:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f171.google.com (mail-iw0-f171.google.com [209.85.214.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gf5si623230icb.2.2011.02.20.08.31.43 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 20 Feb 2011 08:31:43 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.171; Received: by mail-iw0-f171.google.com with SMTP id 19so703931iwr.16 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 08:31:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.176.202 with SMTP id bf10mr694930icb.104.1298219502077; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 08:31:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.199.141 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 08:31:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Luke Bergen Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 11:31:22 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] lujvo making help request To: ".arpis." Cc: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba6e83e6430571049cb948bb --90e6ba6e83e6430571049cb948bb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 True, I'm just saying that caution is in order. Sometimes english words are loaded with tons of meaning from connotation. Sometimes it's best to make the lujvo a reasonable length and then just define it however you want. For example, "email" could be described as {lerfu poi benji ke'a fu lo kibro}. But rather than making a lujvo like {kibybejlerfu} we say screw it, just call it {samymri} and define it how you please. Remember, the rafsi chosen for a lujvo are supposed to provide a decent hint at what the definition is, but at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the definition. Case in point: nikyge'u In all honesty I hope to see more lujvo like this. It's about time that lojban started forging ahead with original words and ideas and stop worrying solely about having a word for every nuance of every english idea that we can come up with. And don't take this one personally .arpis., I've been harping on this one for a while. On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 10:17 AM, .arpis. wrote: > Well, I see no reason why one very precise sense of the word shouldn't be > expressible in lojban in a single word. > > > On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> When one english word is as overloaded as "agnostic" seems to be, it makes >> me question if such a thing should be expressible in lojban with a single >> word. >> >> On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 12:05 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> >>> In tanru yes, but not in a lujvo.The meaning of lujvo is NOT defined as >>> exactly the meaning of the tanru formed from the valsi of the component >>> rafsi. >>> >>> Especially with ready long lujvo, it is not only permissible, but >>> encouraged to leave out non-vital rafsi. >>> >>> Sent from my Android. >>> >>> On Feb 19, 2011 9:40 PM, "Ian Johnson" wrote: >>> >>> I think they are, because that other thing, the thing I described, is a >>> relevant possibility in this discussion in general. Plus, {cevni zasti djuno >>> tolcu'i krici} and {cevni zasti tolcu'i djuno krici} yield lujvo of >>> essentially the same length--you don't need ke/ke'e or bo. >>> >>> >>> >>> mu'o mi'e .latros. >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Jonathan Jones >>> wrote: >>> >>>> > >>>> > I forgot that part in the lujvo. Oops. >>>> > >>>> > Right, (((god existence)(impossible knowing))belief).... >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group... >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Lojban Beginners" g... >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .arpis. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --90e6ba6e83e6430571049cb948bb Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable True, I'm just saying that caution is in order. =A0Sometimes english wo= rds are loaded with tons of meaning from connotation. =A0Sometimes it's= best to make the lujvo a reasonable length and then just define it however= you want.

For example, "email" could be described as {lerfu = poi benji ke'a fu lo kibro}. =A0But rather than making a lujvo like {ki= bybejlerfu} we say screw it, just call it {samymri} and define it how you p= lease.

Remember, the rafsi chosen for a lujvo are supposed to = provide a decent hint at what the definition is, but at the end of the day,= the only thing that matters is the definition.

Case in point: nikyge'u

In all honesty I hope = to see more lujvo like this. =A0It's about time that lojban started for= ging ahead with original words and ideas and stop worrying solely about hav= ing a word for every nuance of every english idea that we can come up with.= =A0And don't take this one personally .arpis., I've been harping o= n this one for a while.

On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 10:17 AM, .arpis. <rpglov= er64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I see no reason why one very precise sense of the word shouldn't = be expressible in lojban in a single word.


On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Luke B= ergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
When one english word i= s as overloaded as "agnostic" seems to be, it makes me question i= f such a thing should be=A0expressible=A0in lojban with a single word.

On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 12:05 AM, Jonathan J= ones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

In tanru yes, but no= t in a lujvo.The meaning of lujvo is NOT defined as exactly the meaning of = the tanru formed from the valsi of the component rafsi.

Especially with ready long lujvo, it is not only permissible, but encour= aged to leave out non-vital rafsi.

Sent from my Android.

On Feb 19, 2011 9:40 PM, "I= an Johnson" <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:

I think they are, becaus= e that other thing, the thing I described, is a relevant possibility in thi= s discussion in general. Plus, {cevni zasti djuno tolcu'i krici} and {c= evni zasti tolcu'i djuno krici} yield lujvo of essentially the same len= gth--you don't need ke/ke'e or bo.



mu'o mi'e .latros.

O= n Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I forgot that part in the lujvo. Oops.
>
> Right, (((god exist= ence)(impossible knowing))belief)....

--

> You received this message because yo= u are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group...=


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google G= roups "Lojban Beginners" g...

=

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<= div>
--
mu'o mi'e .arpis.


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